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#1 curt1965

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 10:37 PM

I did not understand the organization’s thinking when they picked up Matt Belisle from the Indian’s trash heap. Honestly, I was even more astounded that there wasn’t significant outrage on TD. To his credit,I believe Seth actually did question this decision in his uniquely polite manner. For me, when there were several younger options available in Triple A relievers who had earned this promotion, the decision was highly questionable. Moreover, the pickup required roster manipulations that left them without a backup infielder. Thank God they found this stud Motter to solve that problem!
I was at the games yesterday and today, and today observed an appearance by Mr. Belisle.
Here are the results of the top of the 8th inning:
Leon- solid single
Bradley-K
Betts-ROCKET to left that Grossman makes a super play to prevent at least a double
Benintendi-crushed HR
Martinez- another ROCKET to dead center for a double
Moreland-cruise missile for another double
Bogaerts-pop out (I think to Mauer, but my view was blocked)

I know this was just one inning, but why are we picking up players that have been released by reliever-starving clubs?
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#2 big dog

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 06:02 AM

Yeah, it didn't make sense to me but what do I know.At this point, though, I hope they decide they've seen enough.Let the kids play!


#3 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 06:13 AM

I have no doubt that Molitor will keep going to his guys come hell or high water. He has proven that consistently. 

 

I believe that Belisle is one of his guys. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#4 ashburyjohn

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 06:52 AM

If signing Matt Belisle was the answer to something in 2018, I don't even want to hear the question.

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#5 spycake

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 08:07 AM

I posted in one of the earlier Belisle threads: Belisle has been a free agent 5 times in the last 3 years (3 offseasons, and twice this year in-season). The Twins are the only team to sign him to a major league contract during that span -- and we've done it twice.

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#6 Loosey

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 08:12 AM

I can't imagine him being on the roster much longer.I was at the game yesterday and he was not good.The sounds the bats made when hitting the ball where not favorable to a pitcher. . . 

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#7 ashburyjohn

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 08:18 AM

I posted in one of the earlier Belisle threads: Belisle has been a free agent 5 times in the last 3 years (3 offseasons, and twice this year in-season). The Twins are the only team to sign him to a major league contract during that span -- and we've done it twice.

The Fun With Numbers thread is over yonder.

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#8 nicksaviking

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 08:49 AM

 

I have no doubt that Molitor will keep going to his guys come hell or high water. He has proven that consistently. 

 

I believe that Belisle is one of his guys. 

 

Yeah, Molitor did the same with Breslow last year until the front office took him away from Molitor.

 

I'd like to see Belisle taken away from Molitor as well. Send Rogers down and DL Pressly to give him some rest. I don't know what they can do with Reed.

 

Molitor was forced to go to Hildenberger, Busenitz and Rogers last year and they thrived. Do it again, force his hand.

 

Also, Rodney has quietly become one of the more reliable relievers, why is he only 6th on the team in relief appearances? Good lord, what year is it? He doesn't only have to come in when the team is leading in the 9th.

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#9 Thrylos

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 08:59 AM

I see zero reason that soon to be 28 year old Alan Busenitz with 29.6 K%, 25.0 K-BB%, 0.88 WHIP, and 1.27 ERA/ 2.15 FIP in Rochester should be there while Matt Belisle is taking a major league roster spot.

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#10 Mike Sixel

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 09:12 AM

Indefensible that they signed him. They love veterans, love them.
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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#11 spycake

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 09:35 AM

 

The Fun With Numbers thread is over yonder.

I assumed this was going to become the "Not-So-Fun With Numbers" thread. :)

 

Here's another one: Matt Belisle as a Twin vs. the Red Sox has allowed 12 runs in only 4.1 innings. That's 12 runs vs 13 outs, for a 24.94 RA9. (3 runs were scored as unearned so his ERA is only 18.71, although it was a 2 out error followed by a 3 run HR situation, make of that what you will.)

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#12 Jaykay

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 10:23 AM

Embarrassing when he was signed, and ever more so now. 

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#13 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 01:06 PM

 

Yeah, Molitor did the same with Breslow last year until the front office took him away from Molitor.

 

I'd like to see Belisle taken away from Molitor as well. Send Rogers down and DL Pressly to give him some rest. I don't know what they can do with Reed.

 

Molitor was forced to go to Hildenberger, Busenitz and Rogers last year and they thrived. Do it again, force his hand.

 

Also, Rodney has quietly become one of the more reliable relievers, why is he only 6th on the team in relief appearances? Good lord, what year is it? He doesn't only have to come in when the team is leading in the 9th.

 

I'd love to see baseball get away from the closer mentality as well. Your closer can come in the 7th inning when needed if the situation dictates it. 

 

Besides, If I were to hand pick a closer... I'd be looking for a lower WHIP then Rodney typically produces because Closers usually start bases empty. Rodney is more suited for getting out of jams because he is practiced at the art of getting out of them by producing jams. 

 

However... As long as Closers are paid more money then the other bullpen guys. Players are going to insist on that role and as long as managers continue to use them for 9th inning duty... sadly, it won't change for awhile. 

 

Bullpens are very important these days and I continue to insist on them being stuffed to the rafters with 7 guys who can get major league hitters out. However, it's becoming apparent that even this isn't enough. You also need 7 guys that a manager will trust and use. 

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#14 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 01:10 PM

 

I can't imagine him being on the roster much longer.I was at the game yesterday and he was not good.The sounds the bats made when hitting the ball where not favorable to a pitcher. . . 

 

I can imagine it... Although, my imagination can get a little dark at times. 

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#15 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 01:13 PM

 

I assumed this was going to become the "Not-So-Fun With Numbers" thread. :)

 

Here's another one: Matt Belisle as a Twin vs. the Red Sox has allowed 12 runs in only 4.1 innings. That's 12 runs vs 13 outs, for a 24.94 RA9. (3 runs were scored as unearned so his ERA is only 18.71, although it was a 2 out error followed by a 3 run HR situation, make of that what you will.)

 

Meh... Small Sample Size. If you gave him another 30 innings against the Red Sox he could get the ERA down to 15.00.:)

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#16 curt1965

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 01:42 PM

Don’t get me wrong- I love the Twins! But it beyond frustrating to see decisions like this. To me, roster spots are sacred. Every player, whether it’s Joe Mauer or the 25th man, whoever that may be (Belisle?), has a chance to affect the outcome of a game. A win in April, May, or June counts the same as one in September.
Don’t believe this? Matt Magill came into a undecided game last week and pitched 3 no hit innings as the Twins went on to win.
The point I wanted to make in this post is this: it’s not a big deal that Belisle sucked in a game that was most likely lost when he came in. More importantly, what are you telling your young players when they bust their butts and do what the organization says to “give us no choice but to call you up,” (paraphrasing, obviously).
Thrylos’ on the mark comment concerning Alan Busenitz is spot on. What more is he expected to do?
Finally, what is the organization telling its fans? While most fans are unaware or don’t understand situations like this,many of us wonder if the Twins are really trying to give the team the best chance to win by rostering the best players. Right now, they can’t convince me they are!
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#17 yarnivek1972

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 03:01 PM

I'd love to see baseball get away from the closer mentality as well. Your closer can come in the 7th inning when needed if the situation dictates it.

Besides, If I were to hand pick a closer... I'd be looking for a lower WHIP then Rodney typically produces because Closers usually start bases empty. Rodney is more suited for getting out of jams because he is practiced at the art of getting out of them by producing jams.

However... As long as Closers are paid more money then the other bullpen guys. Players are going to insist on that role and as long as managers continue to use them for 9th inning duty... sadly, it won't change for awhile.

Bullpens are very important these days and I continue to insist on them being stuffed to the rafters with 7 guys who can get major league hitters out. However, it's becoming apparent that even this isn't enough. You also need 7 guys that a manager will trust and use.



Isn’t that reverse logic? Bring a guy into a game with runners on that allows a lot of baserunners?

IMO Rodney needs to be left alone to do whatever it is he does in the 9th. Asking him to do more, at his age, is asking for trouble.

#18 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 05:26 PM

 

Isn’t that reverse logic? Bring a guy into a game with runners on that allows a lot of baserunners?

IMO Rodney needs to be left alone to do whatever it is he does in the 9th. Asking him to do more, at his age, is asking for trouble.

 

I call it pretzel logic but reverse works. :)

 

Rodney still can generate the K, one of our top K options and you need K's when your back is against the wall and he seems to pitch a little bit better in higher leverage situations. His Career WHIP is 1.45 with the bases empty. 

 

Although, I'm not a big Rodney fan and my point probably got lost by bringing him up. My main point, I'd like the 9th to be pitched by a guy with a low WHIP (Hildenberger?) and I think the closer role is a little over rated. Not that I want anybody coughing up leads in the 9th.:)

 

 

 

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#19 Doomtints

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 05:51 PM

Without Belisle, who could the Twins give the coveted and highly important role of #13 pitcher to? Jeremy Bondermans don't grow on trees.


#20 USAFChief

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 09:26 PM

As noted by nineoftwelve in today's game thread, tonight had to be Matt Belisle's last major league appearance, no?

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