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Article: MIN 6, BOS 2: Bats Get to Boston Bullpen

jose berrios eduardo escobar trevor hildenberger ryan lamarre
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#21 spycake

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 07:37 AM

 

Extend Escobar, now.

How much do you think it would cost, now?

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#22 ThejacKmp

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 07:40 AM

 

I love me some Escobar, but I think Trout might be having one of the best seasons ever. ESPN has Trout's WAR at 6.6 and Escobar's at 2.2.

Plus Trout's OPS is .217 higher at this time.

 

100% agreed. Escobar has been a great story and gives the Twins two very deserving All-Stars (with Rosario) but Trout is on another level.

 

Then again, Mike Trout should be looking for his 6th MVP but only has two so maybe Escobar has a shot:

 

• 2012 he had 3.4 more WAR than Cabrera with equivalent stats while playing a premier defensive position and leading the league in stolen bases. As a rookie.
• 2013 he had 1.7 more WAR than Cabrera with equivalent stats and again, better defense and base running.
• 2015 was closer but he had 0.9 more WAR than Donaldson, played a better position, hit the same number of home runs with more stolen bases. This is probably the closest but I’d still give it to him.

 

2017 is the only Mike Trout year where he shouldn’t be MVP and that’s only because he missed 50 games with injuries. He was on pace for another MVP season.

 

Ridiculous that we take team success into the MVP discussion and then base the HOF on things like MVPs. Trout’s teams have been bad but he has consistently been far-and-away the best player in baseball. He should be one behind Bonds for most MVPs – at age 26.

 

We should trade for him.

 

 

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#23 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 07:45 AM

 

How much do you think it would cost, now?

Extending Escobar now is the literal definition of buying high.

 

It's unlikely he continues this torrid pace all season and you get to affix a QO to him if need be, which gives you negotiating leverage in November.

 

Just ride it out, see what happens.

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#24 ThejacKmp

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 07:46 AM

 

A great win for the Twins....really. The game seemed destined to be a repeat of about a dozen other games where the Twins have coughed up the lead and then lost in the eighth or ninth or extras.

 

BTW, Bradley doubled up Grossman on Adrianza's fly out in the 8th, but wasn't the obstruction play in order on that attempted tag up? Clearly, Leon used his foot to block Grossman's slide. I am just wondering if I understand the rule. I thought it was any attempt to hinder access to the plate and then obstruction would be called.

 

He just has to leave him a path to the plate. If you look at Leon, he's out in front of the plate and Grossman has a clear path to the plate. Only after he catches it does he get into the base path. They called this 100% correct.

 

I don't think you can say Grossman was slow on this, it was a magnificent throw. I think you can say that he should not be running down the inside part of the line. If he's on the back half of the plate I think he's safe. It also would have been a great time for that Justin Morneau fall-away slide. He's got to react to where the catcher is a little bit better.


#25 ThejacKmp

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 07:47 AM

 

Addison Reed in the eighth inning experiment as always eight inning guy can end please.

 

See I want them to bring him back for the role. He's the Twins best reliever and now he's gotten five days off. Bring him back and maybe don't be so stuck to it? Use Hildy and Reed in the 8th and Pressley/Duke/Rogers/Magill in earlier innings. Molly just needs to expand his pen use.

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#26 ThejacKmp

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 07:51 AM

 

How much do you think it would cost, now?

 

$1 million per double

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#27 ThejacKmp

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 07:53 AM

Bradley's throw was great but on Escobar's single double, his fielding was atrocious. He straight over-ran that ball (at he had no chance to catch) and turned a one-run play into a two run play. And really, almost a three run play since Escobar ended up on third. That was the ball game there. Keep it to one run (the Red Sox aren't playing as close if its first and second on Grossman) and anything can happen with the FRE.

 

that throw was nice but doesn't make up for the wretchedness of that Escobar play.


#28 ThejacKmp

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 07:57 AM

 

Extending Escobar now is the literal definition of buying high.

 

It's unlikely he continues this torrid pace all season and you get to affix a QO to him if need be, which gives you negotiating leverage in November.

 

Just ride it out, see what happens.

 

The argument against it would be that then you're going to have to compete on the market and that guys who turn down qualifying offers seem to not want to sign with the team that extended the offer.

 

That said, I think Escobar loves being in MN and loves playing with these guys. I think if you told him, "We're going to extend the QO but then we want to bring you back", he'd understand.

 

Any payday he gets will be much higher than he'd have expected before this year and especially before last year. I imagine that gives a guy a different mentality than a guy like Dozier who has been outperforming his contract for the past three years and has not been given an extension. Not sure the Twins will extend a QO to Dozier but if they do, that might be the kiss of death for him as a Twin.


#29 Circus Boy

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 07:59 AM

Same as Mr. Froemming, I turned off the game in the 8th with EE at the dish. Worked like a charm. Woke up this a.m. with a win. Better, it was a win I'd already counted as a loss going in.

 

Still, a hot streak by all the bats and 12 or 13 wins in a row would really do me good at this point.

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#30 Han Joelo

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:00 AM

I'm starting to think that whole "record in one-run games" stat is kind of meaningless.  This was a tight game that was within 1 run most of the way.  Subtract out a Grossman triple (two words you won't see together often) and any one of two Lamarre walks or Mauer HBP's and they win by one.

 

If there need to be tie-breakers in The Who is Less Evil contest between Boston and NY, I have to say their radio announcers are great.  The one guy sounds like he's straight from central casting.  They were just commenting complementary about Escobar and how he wasn't getting fluke doubles to pad his total when he went and hit one.

 

Probably the best win of the season for me--Berrios held it together and pitched like an ace, and the (one of) the big guns came through in the clutch.  Twice.  And Lamarre "ignited" both rallies, on a night when Buxton was 0fer in AAA.  (OK, that part sucks.  But good for Lamarre.)


#31 Shaitan

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:08 AM

 

See I want them to bring him back for the role. He's the Twins best reliever and now he's gotten five days off. Bring him back and maybe don't be so stuck to it? Use Hildy and Reed in the 8th and Pressley/Duke/Rogers/Magill in earlier innings. Molly just needs to expand his pen use.

Agreement, though I don't know what exactly is going on with Reed (mental vs physical). I'd give him a couple lower leverage appearances first. Hopefully tonight will be a blowout and he can pitch the 9th.


#32 mikelink45

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:15 AM

So fun to see the posts in a win.Berrios, Escobar, Rosario are the stories for the first half of the year. Lets hope there are more stories in the second half. 

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#33 Tomj14

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:15 AM

 

Or the Twins did a good job getting Sale up to 105 pitches through seven so the Red Sox would be foolish to bring him back out there?

Berrios was given a chance but once a guy gets on base, the odds of the tying run scoring go way up. At that point, you want a fresh arm throwing heat rather than giving the Red Sox lineup a 4th look at Berrios. I thought it was a great time to go get someone and a great spot for Hildy. He’s got a funky delivery that is a jarring transition from Berrios. He’s also young – Benintendi and Bogaerts had each only seen him once and Martinez had never seen him. That’s another nice advantage.

 

Thought giving Berrios a shot was great but realizing the leverage of the situation and the better bullpen option was smart.

The Twins did a great job of running up his pitch count after the 4th no doubt,IMO the Red Sox had a better chance of winning that game with Sale pitching the 8th then anybody else. He had given up 3 hits, one a fluke, one was a amazing hit (Escobar) and one solid hit to LaMarre.

An 8 year vet, with 1426 innings, 1692 K's, should be able to start the 8th inning with 105 pitches in a 2 - 2 game. IMO

 

also IMO high pressure pitching is "suppose" to be more important than innings or pitch count. And sending a guy out to start a inning with requirement that he is perfect is very high pressure.


#34 Tom Froemming

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:16 AM

 

Tom, for the greater good of Twins Territory, please make the personal sacrifice to the Baseball Gods. Ill buy you a beer (or a few) sometime. Thank you.

 

PS love the recaps, keep up the good work.

 

https://tenor.com/vi...ood-gif-5283257

I may double down and not only avoid watching the Twins tonight, but watch Cleveland instead. Think I can jinx them, or will my jinx carryover to their opponents? I still haven't figured out how these new powers work :)

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#35 Tomj14

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:19 AM


We should trade for him.

As long as we don't have to give up anybody we actually like or is good in the minors. ;)

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#36 Tomj14

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:25 AM

 

Berrios has been allowed to go deep into games quite often and he didn’t have his best stuff last night, not even close. You thank the guy for his effort and let the bullpen take it from there.

I agree he didn't have his best stuff, but then why bring him out and ask him to be perfect, then knowing full well if he is not, you are bringing in a relief pitcher and basically asking him to be perfect as well?


#37 PDX Twin

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:27 AM

 

Thought giving Berrios a shot was great but realizing the leverage of the situation and the better bullpen option was smart.

 

Wait ... Who was the manager who made this correct bullpen call? :)

It's great to get out of the cellar ... as long as you bring something with you.


#38 Number3

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:29 AM

So the very unpredictable way this season is shaping up continues. Last years all-star in A ball. This years all-star essentially his full time replacement. Thank goodness Berrios has rebounded from a couple of shaky starts earlier and Lynn is coming around.Just take the field expecting to win and go out and play baseball. (I know not very analytical. Will leave that to the pros. I just enjoy "talking" about the Twins).

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#39 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:34 AM

 

The argument against it would be that then you're going to have to compete on the market and that guys who turn down qualifying offers seem to not want to sign with the team that extended the offer.

 

That said, I think Escobar loves being in MN and loves playing with these guys. I think if you told him, "We're going to extend the QO but then we want to bring you back", he'd understand.

 

Any payday he gets will be much higher than he'd have expected before this year and especially before last year. I imagine that gives a guy a different mentality than a guy like Dozier who has been outperforming his contract for the past three years and has not been given an extension. Not sure the Twins will extend a QO to Dozier but if they do, that might be the kiss of death for him as a Twin.

If the Twins want Escobar, I suspect they'll have more than a fair chance to keep him.

 

Escobar is a hard player to predict and frankly, I'm more interested in keeping him if his OPS is .800 than if his OPS is .900 at season's end. I think he can sustain an .800 OPS for awhile but am incredibly skeptical of him holding at .900 for a prolonged period of time, which means I don't want to bid for him after a .900 OPS season.

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#40 spycake

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:45 AM

 

The argument against it would be that then you're going to have to compete on the market and that guys who turn down qualifying offers seem to not want to sign with the team that extended the offer.

I'm not sure if that's on the player, though -- the team that extends the QO is incentivized to let the player sign elsewhere. Although that incentive has been reduced in the latest CBA -- unless the player gets $50 mil, the comp pick is at best going to be in the range of the pick we sold with Hughes.




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