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Short Season A team

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#1 mlhouse

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 12:03 PM

I really think that the Twins need to add a short season A level team to their minor league affiliations.Without this level, the Twins are starting their college level draft picks too low in the organization and delaying their movement through the system too much.

 

Consider a guy like Bryan Sammons as an example.He was our 8th round draft pick out of Western Carolina drafted as a college senior. He is pitching well at CR and maybe that is the level he needs to be.But the problem is he is 23 years old.IN his draft year in 2017, he blew away the rookie level opposition and like a few Twins draft picks got moved up to low level A league.The Twins then put him there to start this season and he is pitching well with 3.05 ERA and 53 strike outs in 59 innings.  

 

But, for him to have a chance he really should be one level higher than what he is.Using the "Twins Way", he will be 24 at A+, 25 at AA, and 26-27 years old at AAA. And that is if he does not encounter an injury or other mishaps along the way. 

 

If we had a Short Season A team college players like Sammons would be put at a more advanced level competing against players that are at the same level they are.There is a reason why Elizabethton is consistently successful in their league, we put more advanced players there than other teams.From the Short Season A, players would not have to be moved up to Cedar Rapids like Sammons last season and then the team has more information on the players.The successful ones like Sammons can get an advance on their careerand be placed in A+ Fort Myers.The ones that need more work to low A in Cedar Rapids.  

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#2 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 02:23 PM

This link will show what minor league teams are affiliated with what MLB team.

You will see that only 10 teams currently have 6 affiliated minor league teams, with the Reds and Royals having 2 Rookie-level teams and no short season A-ball clubs.

Interesting thought, though. Clearly there are choices that impact the player development, though to what extent I could not say.

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#3 Thrylos

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 03:00 PM

Advanced Rookie and short season A has pretty much the same quality of talent.Really where someone starts the first year of pro ball after a full college season does not matter at all, because players are usually spent, esp. pitchers.Where he starts his first full season of pro ball (year after draft) matters, and players can start at high levels.Rooker started his first pro season at AA for example. 

 

Having 8 or 9 minor league teams (that link does not show DSL teams and some franchises have even 2 of those) means that, unlike the Twins that are weeding the stable before the draftees start to play to make space, these teams have to carry lesser level prospect just to keep rosters full

Edited by Thrylos, 16 June 2018 - 03:17 PM.

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#4 mlhouse

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 09:06 AM

 

Advanced Rookie and short season A has pretty much the same quality of talent.Really where someone starts the first year of pro ball after a full college season does not matter at all, because players are usually spent, esp. pitchers.Where he starts his first full season of pro ball (year after draft) matters, and players can start at high levels.Rooker started his first pro season at AA for example. 

 

Having 8 or 9 minor league teams (that link does not show DSL teams and some franchises have even 2 of those) means that, unlike the Twins that are weeding the stable before the draftees start to play to make space, these teams have to carry lesser level prospect just to keep rosters full

 

Sorry, Rooker started his professional career at Elizabethton as a college senior.He was, for hte Twins, uncharacteristically promoted to A+.Rooker is the exception to the Twins norm.

 

Regardless, I totally disagree with your claim that the advanced rookie league is the same level as the short season A in terms of competition.

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#5 old nurse

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 09:27 AM

 

Sorry, Rooker started his professional career at Elizabethton as a college senior.He was, for hte Twins, uncharacteristically promoted to A+.Rooker is the exception to the Twins norm.

 

Regardless, I totally disagree with your claim that the advanced rookie league is the same level as the short season A in terms of competition.

This is Rooker's first full season in pro ball, he started it in AA. Twin's way with college starting pitchers. Slegers moved up 2 levels a year,Gibson moved up quickly.Logan Darnell moved up quickly.Now if you were to say the Twins have picked many poor college pitchers, that would be fair.If you look and saw how many of their college pitchers blew out arms, that would be a fair observation. That they do not promote pitchers in season is a fallacy.

Short season A leagues are primarily filedwith players not good enough for full season A. There may be a few players right out of college, but I doubt if there would be much gain in success of the development of the players.

Edited by old nurse, 17 June 2018 - 09:32 AM.

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#6 Rosterman

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 10:07 AM

The Twins have a pretty decent setup with Fort Myers being a gem of a place to play Instructional Ball and short-season, and Elizabethton a good way for players to learn to live away from home (school) and on the road before advancing to other minor leagues endeavors. No pressure, so to speak. The Twins also can shuffle players pretty well into temporary play at Ft. Myers A+ and do constantly push players to Cedar Rapids. 

 

You can argue thatthey allow players to age more often than not before advancing forwards. And the upper levels are filled with too many minor league free agents, albeit the question, do you have more prospects sitting around than roster spots? Doesn't seem so, this year at least.

 

And the Twins have also been known to jump guys from AA ball to the majors frequently...so Rochester, insted of being prospect haven, is often a short stop for a prospect or a place major league guys can rehab (although Ft. Myers is the gem...dorm rooms, multiple playing fields, lucky sunshine, workout rooms, lots of coaches and trainers, et al).

 

Another team means 25 more players found and put on payroll.

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#7 mlhouse

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 12:01 PM

 

This is Rooker's first full season in pro ball, he started it in AA. Twin's way with college starting pitchers. Slegers moved up 2 levels a year,Gibson moved up quickly.Logan Darnell moved up quickly.Now if you were to say the Twins have picked many poor college pitchers, that would be fair.If you look and saw how many of their college pitchers blew out arms, that would be a fair observation. That they do not promote pitchers in season is a fallacy.

Short season A leagues are primarily filedwith players not good enough for full season A. There may be a few players right out of college, but I doubt if there would be much gain in success of the development of the players.

 

1.Claiming Rooker started in AA is wrong, you know it is wrong, and now you are just dodging to cover up your mistake.

 

2. The short season A league is not what you claim.It is a more advanced short season versus the rookie leagues. Teams send their current and previous season college level draft picks and other players that are beyond the rookie league levels to play. The Twins, without a short season A league send all of their college level players to the Rookie league.Do you ever wonder why ELizabethton always seems to be a very good team?You think that is just random?

 

3.You can find exceptions to the rule in the Twins organization.Jesse Crain was another.Scott Baker another.  

 

4.And, as I always point out, comparisons to other teams in the major leagues needs to be done understanding that the Twins have fielded poor quality teams for many years.Movement through the minor leagues should be much easier without established players at the top.Compare Aaron Judge's movement through the minors to any of our prospects and you will see that the Yankees advance much quicker.


#8 Seth Stohs

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 01:39 PM

I sometimes think that they need a short-season A club, but I do wonder the value. I mean, at the start of each season, they still will have four full-season affiliates to fill. Right now, players got from E-Town to the Midwest League. In theory, wouldn't the likelihood for some be to go from E-Town to the Short-Season A club to the Midwest League actually, potentially, delay things?

 

I think they're fine as is. The reality is that the Twins (and most teams) start their college players in Rookie-Advanced. Last year, Rooker jumped to Ft. Myers, but like 4-5 others moved up to Cedar Rapids, including Lewis. 

 

This year, it's likely that Larnach and Jeffers will start at E-Town, spend 3-4 weeks and then jump to Cedar Rapids to end the season. There'll likely be a couple others that get there too. Rooker was definitely an exception to not only the Twins but all organization. 

 

The main reason that I woudln't mind seeing a short-season A affiliate would be that they could keep about 28-30 more players in the organization after the draft. More prospects to follow. 


#9 old nurse

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 03:13 PM

 

1.Claiming Rooker started in AA is wrong, you know it is wrong, and now you are just dodging to cover up your mistake.

 

2. The short season A league is not what you claim.It is a more advanced short season versus the rookie leagues. Teams send their current and previous season college level draft picks and other players that are beyond the rookie league levels to play. The Twins, without a short season A league send all of their college level players to the Rookie league.Do you ever wonder why ELizabethton always seems to be a very good team?You think that is just random?

 

3.You can find exceptions to the rule in the Twins organization.Jesse Crain was another.Scott Baker another.  

 

4.And, as I always point out, comparisons to other teams in the major leagues needs to be done understanding that the Twins have fielded poor quality teams for many years.Movement through the minor leagues should be much easier without established players at the top.Compare Aaron Judge's movement through the minors to any of our prospects and you will see that the Yankees advance much quicker.

Nobody claimed Rooker started his first season in AAHis first full season started id AA. Short season is not full season. Rooker joined the team after the start of the season.

Semantics

 

The more the exceptions there is no rule.If they have talent, they advance more often than not.

 

If the Twins missed out on many players let go to soon you would have a point for short season A.

Edited by old nurse, 17 June 2018 - 03:15 PM.


#10 caninatl04

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 03:59 PM

Any news on the short season teams’ rosters?