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Article: What will another good September mean for Chris Parmelee?

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#1 Cody Christie

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 07:58 AM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...-Chris-Parmelee

#2 stringer bell

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:27 AM

Yes, find a spot for Parm. I guess I would like to see another basher--having Mauer, Willingham, Morneau, Doumit ,Parmelee, Plouffe go from 3-8 (or 2-7) is pretty formidable.

#3 COtwin

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:33 AM

It is definitely a conundrum. Chris deserves a chance to play everyday. But at least for next year, Justin still seems to be in the teams plans for the future. Outfield is not Chris' strongest position and not having Span and Revere in there at the same time weakens the defense considerably in my opinion. Ideally Revere would be moved to center with Span either traded or in right, but I understand that this lessens Spans trade value. The question in my mind is this. Is Parmalee capable of being better in the next few years than Justin will be? If yes, than we trade Justin in the next year, until then platoon Parmalee with the outfield and first base. If no, I think we trade Parmalee. Sano seems like a likely candidate for first in the future anyway.

#4 Shane Wahl

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 09:41 AM

I fear that this OF being trotted out there is going to be the OF for 2013. This means mistakenly trading Span instead of Morneau. This means having a weak OF defense. I would maintain that there is no room for Morneau, Parmelee, Doumit, and Mauer all on the roster at the same time unless they just keep Parmelee in RF the whole time. The obvious solution is to trade Morneau for pitching and play Parmelee at 1B. But what obvious is not what the Twins will do.

#5 DAM DC Twins Fans

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 10:22 AM

The answer has to be trade somebody (Morneau, Span, Revere, or Willingham). Who do you trade--whoever can bring the best starting pitcher. Morneau will be in his walk year and has concussion history (so I doubt he will bring much), Willingham is a DH playing in LF. So my guess is trading Span or Revere and playing Parmalee in RF next year. I would like to see him at 1B, but it is doubtul the Twins will get much for Morneau.

#6 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 10:24 AM

If he mashes again, I don't see another alternative to trading both Span and Morneau before the deadline next July (at least one of which should be traded this offseason). With Mauer, Morneau, Doumit, Parmelee, Willingham, Revere (who is coming back down to earth), Hicks, and Arcia competing for spots in 2013, guys are going to have to be traded to clear space.

#7 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:24 AM

I'd prefer they trade Revere before he reverts back to 4th OF status.
Hicks is the CF of the future, and Revere doesn't hit near enough to justify at corner OF spot.

#8 Too Much Twins

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:40 AM

I'd prefer this path:
Trade Willingham this off-season for a respectable haul of pitching. He returns significantly more than Morneau or Revere, and frees up 7 mil for more pitching. Start next season with Revere, Span, and Parm in the outfield (he has little experience, but can't be much worse than the Hammer). Assuming another losing season and reasonable trade offers, trade Span for pitching at the deadline and call up Hicks sometime in July. 2013 off-season let Morneau walk, enter 2014 with Parm at first, a young outfield of Hicks, Revere, Arcia and hopefully a large haul of other teams' pitching.

#9 Shane Wahl

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:44 AM

One would hope that an OF of Revere-Span-Willingham would be possible next year. Can't they make that work, please?

Trading Morneau (I do think they could get quite a bit of value--it isn't like he is going to be making MORE than $14 million a year after 2013, so teams can think of him as a one-year rental or a longer term declining price option) is the most direct solution to the Parmelee situation that doesn't sacrifice much defense or speed. If the Twins pick up a bit of that $14 million, the return could be very good.

I would prefer trading Revere over Span, as well (because of Hicks). That would have to be in the offseason, though. Span is going to draw more at the deadline.

I would like to see Hicks actually get some time in RF in Rochester because of that arm. If they kept BOTH Revere and Span while promoting Hicks at some point next year . . . on some day off for Mauer or Doumit or Parmelee, the Twins would have a ridiculously awesome defensive OF.

Convincing Revere to play LF and Willingham to play RF has to be on the damn agenda.

#10 nicksaviking

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:50 AM

There are so many scenarios for the 2013 OF/1B/DH/C rotation that a positive outcome should be available. I don't mean to be pessimistic, but I don't know that I trust his frong office to make the right decisions though. In recent years they seem content to do little and let the problems work themselves out either by letting young guys who could be in the majors sit in AAA or wait for an injury to make the decision for them.

#11 Willihammer

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:54 AM

Given the inflated price that prospects have gone for, one wonders why the Twins haven't even called up Hicks, who is also hot. The best thing may be for Parmelee to continue what he has been doing for his last 300 PAs (only), and bait a buyer like the Red Sox this winter. In a lost season, in September, there is little reason to start Span/Revere/Willihammer when they could be showcasing talent.

#12 Shane Wahl

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:56 AM

I'd prefer this path:
Trade Willingham this off-season for a respectable haul of pitching. He returns significantly more than Morneau or Revere, and frees up 7 mil for more pitching. Start next season with Revere, Span, and Parm in the outfield (he has little experience, but can't be much worse than the Hammer). Assuming another losing season and reasonable trade offers, trade Span for pitching at the deadline and call up Hicks sometime in July. 2013 off-season let Morneau walk, enter 2014 with Parm at first, a young outfield of Hicks, Revere, Arcia and hopefully a large haul of other teams' pitching.


Willingham would bring back a fairly big haul, the biggest out of all of them. But that 30+ homer power is valuable for the Twins, and it comes cheaply. The debacle that was Joe Benson's 2012 season had quite an impact.

#13 Ultima Ratio

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:58 AM

I don't see a desperate need to trade anyone yet, other than clearing up the roster on paper. If we stand pat, and I think we should until a good trade is offered, this means that we have one nice pinch hitter option every game, and we have 2-3 guys who need to be pinch hit for, namely the middle infield and Revere in a late 2-out home-run-requiring situation. If Revere is the full time LF with a platoon in RF with Parmelee and Willingham, and a DH platoon of Doumit and Willingham, and a de facto platoon at C with Mauer and Doumit -- you get a key player a day of rest who serves as that pinch hitter once a week. I'm not suggesting a strict LHP/RHP platoon, but there are obvious matchups to exploit given this situation: such as sitting Parmelee or Doumit most often when facing a LHP starter. In the 9th, when Carroll/Casilla/Dozier/Frorimon come to the plate, it would be nice to have Doumit/Parmelee to pinch hit then.

Also, with the health problems that invariable plague this team, this one-day-a-week rest day/PH scenario resolves itself with one injury.

Caveat: This does not give Gardy license to play Willingham and Parmelee in the OF at the same time. And never, ever should Doumit step on the OF grass outside of warming up before the game.

Edited by Ultima Ratio, 04 September 2012 - 12:03 PM.
Caveat


#14 Siehbiscuit

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:22 PM

Move Span. OF of Willingham, Span and Parmalee. If we move Morneau at deadline, Parmalee can move to 1B fulltime and Hicks can take over in RF at that time. This will give Hicks a little more seasoning in the minors. Span will get better prospects than Morneau at this point.

#15 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:28 PM

Given the inflated price that prospects have gone for, one wonders why the Twins haven't even called up Hicks, who is also hot. The best thing may be for Parmelee to continue what he has been doing for his last 300 PAs (only), and bait a buyer like the Red Sox this winter. In a lost season, in September, there is little reason to start Span/Revere/Willihammer when they could be showcasing talent.

Trade Hicks?

No.

#16 DPJ

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:31 PM

Should have just let the Dodgers have Morneau for nothing.

Money to spend on pitching and opens the door for Parm.

#17 mike wants wins

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:34 PM

Trade morneau and Willingham. Put hicks, revere and arcia as the starting outfield, with span moving around on healthy days. Put parmalee at first, use the freed up money to get pitching or middle infield help.

#18 joeboo_22

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:57 PM

Here is what is going to happen, Span will be moved in the off season. Revere will move to CF, Parmelee will continue in RF, where though not great, isn't terrible out there either.

Now what I would do is move Willingham before the deadline, my guess is either Benson, Hicks or Arcia will be ready to play LF by then. If 2 are ready, I trade Doumit as well.

The reason I don't trade Morneau before next year at the deadline is because of value. I'm not in the know but my guess is Morneau sells well with the average Twins fans, I bet they sell quite a few of his jersey's and his off the field events are pretty well attended.If Morneau showed up healthy next year and put up a .320 35HR 120 RBI's season with a different team it looks terrible on the Twins front office (that doesn't look great right now). So I think they would rather put up with a .260 25HR 80RBI season and let him walk unless a great deal comes his way next year.

#19 PseudoSABR

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:23 PM

If you trade anyone from our surplus it should not be done to save money, but to obtain talent. In that case, Morneau is the WORST candidate to trade as he will bring the least in return. Span is killing his value with injuries, but I hope he gets back out there and finishes the season, because he makes the most sense to trade with the glut of CFers.

#20 Shane Wahl

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:35 PM

If you trade anyone from our surplus it should not be done to save money, but to obtain talent. In that case, Morneau is the WORST candidate to trade as he will bring the least in return. Span is killing his value with injuries, but I hope he gets back out there and finishes the season, because he makes the most sense to trade with the glut of CFers.


Trading Morneau is not about saving money, it is about being able to use that money to make one (just ONE, please, Terry?) FA starting pitcher signing that means something beyond the Jeremy Guthries of the world. Morneau could yield one top prospect and some lower prospect (the Twins could throw in something else like Swarzak and Bigley). He has one near full season with very few injury issues and is back to .270 and 20+ power.

Willingham brings the biggest return, but he also is that RH power bat the Twins have lacked for a LONG time. There is only a "glut" of CF if you consider Ben Revere really to be a CF, which I don't. Hicks still has to demonstrate that he can be good to very good in AAA. Benson is a question mark. And BOTH could be RF as well.

#21 Huskerboy

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:42 PM

Should have just let the Dodgers have Morneau for nothing.

Money to spend on pitching and opens the door for Parm.


Gets my vote. Morneau should be the first to go.

#22 JP3700

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:22 PM

Parmelee will be in the lineup next year. If he's not, then we will know something is wrong with the organization and that they've lost their mind. The question is, who do we move to get him in the lineup?

The best move IMO is to move Span and Willingham in a package, as they have the most trade value. Two targets that make sense are the Braves and Phillies. The Braves have a world series caliber team, will have holes in both LF and CF, have a limited budget, and have a crazy amount of starting pitching. The Phillies want to also compete for a world series while staying under the luxury tax. This also might drive up the return if both teams are trying to acquire our 2 players.

It's unrealistic to think that we will ever sign an ace so we need to either draft or trade for a possible ace. In these two trades I would be looking for either a package that started with Jesse Biddle of the Phillies or Julio Teheran of the Braves. A proposed trade I thought of would be Willingham, Span, and Burton for Teheran and Delgado. The Braves need a RH set up man as well and we'd get a possible 1 and 2 for 10 years.

Obviously we move Revere to CF, Parm stays at RF to start the season and to fill Willingham's power void we go sign Jonny Gomes. Take a look at Gomes' numbers this year compared to Willingham's. If they had equal ABs, they would be almost identical and he will be cheaper. Hicks, Arcia, Benson and Herrmann start at AAA and depending on where they are, and also where the team is, by around the trade deadline we can move 2 of the 3, between Morneau, Doumit or Gomes.

Add in a couple good moves in the offseason and we can stay competitive in 2013 and still be building for the future.

#23 Willihammer

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:28 PM

Trading Morneau is not about saving money, it is about being able to use that money to make one (just ONE, please, Terry?) FA starting pitcher


This assumes:
that the Pohlads are unwilling or unable to do both
that, a buyer exists who wants Morneau and will pay 14m for him.
that the Pohlads wouldn't do exactly what you say if they found a buyer, ie. save the money.

JR has already indicated he thinks pitching market is "Thin."

Wins are wins. They can come from good hitting, pitching, or fielding.

Morneau currently holds the 14th best wOBA of 1BS in baseball (min 400 PAs). His wRC is over 100, meaning after positional adjustment, he is producing runs at a better than average clip. Know who is behind him? Former hot prospects Eric Hosmer, Justin Smoak, and Ike Davis. Teams who miss a good 1b in the middle of their lineup don't often win. Even if he is a little overpaid for his position.

#24 TheLeviathan

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:51 PM

Clearly it means going back and forth to AAA next season with stops at the big leagues when he's on his best roll only to sit on the bench for weeks on end and then a callup two weeks too late with another case of DL mismanagement.

I mean,****, guy only had to OPS well over 1.000 to get a look again. I'm sure the rope he's given will be plenty short.

#25 PseudoSABR

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 09:24 PM

If you trade anyone from our surplus it should not be done to save money, but to obtain talent. In that case, Morneau is the WORST candidate to trade as he will bring the least in return. Span is killing his value with injuries, but I hope he gets back out there and finishes the season, because he makes the most sense to trade with the glut of CFers.


Trading Morneau is not about saving money, it is about being able to use that money to make one (just ONE, please, Terry?) FA starting pitcher signing that means something beyond the Jeremy Guthries of the world. Morneau could yield one top prospect and some lower prospect (the Twins could throw in something else like Swarzak and Bigley)..

You're dreaming if you think Morneau gets a top prospect or if the money saved will be reinvested in order for the Twins to compete in 2013; if the Twins trade Morneau this offseason, I'll take it as a whiteflag for 2013. In any case, the Twins will already be tens of millions below budget. They can afford Morneau and starting pitchers if they choose.

#26 OldManWinter

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 10:30 PM

But, Ryan recently remarked that he expects Morneau to return to his normal numbers next year and indicated the Big Canadian would be part of team foundation next year.

#27 Shane Wahl

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 12:11 AM

[quote name='PseudoSABR'][quote name='Shane Wahl'][quote name='PseudoSABR']If you trade anyone from our surplus it should not be done to save money, but to obtain talent. In that case, Morneau is the WORST candidate to trade as he will bring the least in return. Span is killing his value with injuries, but I hope he gets back out there and finishes the season, because he makes the most sense to trade with the glut of CFers.[/QUOTE]

Trading Morneau is not about saving money, it is about being able to use that money to make one (just ONE, please, Terry?) FA starting pitcher signing that means something beyond the Jeremy Guthries of the world. Morneau could yield one top prospect and some lower prospect (the Twins could throw in something else like Swarzak and Bigley)..[/QUOTE]You're dreaming if you think Morneau gets a top prospect or if the money saved will be reinvested in order for the Twins to compete in 2013; if the Twins trade Morneau this offseason, I'll take it as a whiteflag for 2013. In any case, the Twins will already be tens of millions below budget. They can afford Morneau and starting pitchers if they choose.[/QUOTE]

I guess I wonder what you mean by top prospect. I mean a top 5-8 prospect within whatever team it is (Toronto, Texas, Boston, etc.). This changes a lot if the Twins are willing to pay some of his salary. They will be pressed to return to 98 million even with Morneau. Parmelee could reasonably produce the exact same numbers in 2013 as Morneau 2012.

#28 PseudoSABR

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 01:18 AM

I guess I wonder what you mean by top prospect. I mean a top 5-8 prospect within whatever team it is (Toronto, Texas, Boston, etc.). This changes a lot if the Twins are willing to pay some of his salary. They will be pressed to return to 98 million even with Morneau. Parmelee could reasonably produce the exact same numbers in 2013 as Morneau 2012.

Did you see what we got for Liriano? Imagine less than that. Bigger contract, just as many questions. I don't think there's anyway Morneau fetches even a top 10 prospect with his contract, questions, and league average production. Do the Twins really need to buy a middling prospect for 14million? That doesn't seem prudent.

If we're going to trade Morneau, we need to maximize his value (or at least try), and that means trading him at the 13 deadline (if need be). Moreneau's production isn't as replaceable as Span's, especially if Morneau returns to form (or even continues his second half numbers).

It is pollyannish to believe that Morneau is the most easily expendable part. He's simply the most undesirable part (contract/production) at this point, but that will probably change in 2013.

#29 clutterheart

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 01:49 AM

Folks, please understand Parmelee is NOT a substitute for Willingham or Doumitt

Willingham is Right Handed and Doumit is a Switch Hitter. Parmelee hits Left Handed and the Twins need a convincing threat the right side.

Span or Morneau have to go for him to get playing time. And I for one dread an OF consisting of Parmelee, Wllingham and Revere. This would be a bad defensive OF.

#30 Don't Feed the Greed Guy

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:16 AM

Did I miss anything? I'm surprised that nobody is saying "Trade Parmalee!" If he has a hot September, and last night's game seems to be adding to that probability, he will have more value in the offseason than Morneau. As stated above, Morneau has the LEAST trade value, right now.

Morneau, and especially Willingham will have value next June and July before the trading deadline.

I bet that the Twins will trade one or more high level position/outfield prospects for high level pitchiing prospects this winter, and they will try to pick up one or two starters via free agency.

That will be plan A, to rebuild the starting pitching and stand pat with the present offense.

If/when Plan A, fails, Plan B will be to deal Willingham and Morneau next season.