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Article: MIN 6, CLE 3: Anything is Possible

kyle gibson eddie rosario trevor hildenberger brian dozier
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#21 rdehring

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 08:48 AM

Now that was an enjoyable game to watch.

 

Add Gibson to the list of players who will need an extension this winter, along with Rosario and Berrios.Gibson, Romero and Berrios can form the nucleus of a playoff caliber rotation.Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see them extend Lynn as the veteran part of that group. 

 

The other player that needs to be extended, this summer, is the Mighty Mouse.All the other young guys can wait another year...or longer.

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#22 Puckett34

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 08:54 AM

Since the start of the 2nd half of 2017, Gibby has a ERA of 3.50 in 159.2 IP in 27 starts.  Walks are a bit too high.  But he may be finally "getting it".   

 

As others have said in the game thread last night. He has been spectacularly above average. And has been for some time.

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Hit dingers.  Never bunt.


#23 Shaitan

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 09:40 AM

 

My only question is where Magill was. Up by five with six outs to get? When else is he going to get work?

 

Because Molitor believes a team needs an 8 man bullpen but should only use the same 4 pitchers every single game.

 

It would also be the perfect scenario to get Reed out there (if he hadn't thrown 30 pitches the day before). 

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#24 USAFChief

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:03 AM

A little crow, but still not quite ready to declare him finally the pitcher we'd hoped. He's had nice runs before.

The walks are still an issue; he dodged out of trouble last night, but walks nearly ended his night early. I get nervous that the wheels are going to fall off the wagon when he's walking 3.9 per 9. But his approach is overall much better, he's keeping the ball in the park, and trusting his stuff to get more Ks. It's finally a workable formula and he pitched well last night.

Offense still needs serious work, but it's good to see Dozier rip a dinger last night. Maybe that will help him kickoff a second half run a little earlier this year?

My opinion: the walks aren’t exactly intentional, but not exactly unintentional either. They’re a byproduct of his changed approach. Instead of the previous regime’s “pitch to contact and avoid walks AT ALL COSTS” approach, he’s not throwing a cookie every time he falls behind 1-0 or 2-1. He’s still trying to throw a pitch on the edge of the zone. Sometimes he misses and walks guys...sometimes he hits a corner and gets back in the count. Either way, there’s fewer “sinkers” in the whomp-em zone.

Walks are less damaging than hits. Giving up 2 walks more per game, but 2 fewer hits works in a pitchers favor every time. He’s also K’ing more hitters, which helps.

Give me this approach every time over that pitch to contact mantra we’ve lived with for years.
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#25 Danchat

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:09 AM

 

Good for Gibson, nice to see him get a win!The biggest question I have is who is Motter?I just went on baseball reference and see a career -0.6 WAR player. https://www.baseball...motteta01.shtml

 

Is this another instance where the FO has to go to the scrap heap rather than going with a minor league player?We have a utility man - Adrianza - why not try out someone like Gordon?Or why did we not keep up Petit? 

 

Any notes on Polanco - is he working out with someone so that he can be ready to play?

 

I am filled with questions.What has happened to Taylor Rogers?He was such a different pitcher most of last year. The BP really is a mystery. 

Yeah, it seems like Motter is just a placeholder until Polanco gets here. He has a little upside and it doesn't seem like the team is willing to give any of the younger guys an opportunity, so it's back to the scrap heap.

 

The Twins position players just can't stay healthy... and now Polanco's cutting his hand on a car door... bleh.

 

Rogers just hasn't been the same since facing the Dodgers in July of last year. Here's his stats:

 

2016: 3.96 ERA, 2.3 BB/9, 9.4 K/9

2017 before Dodgers series: 2.15 ERA, 2.4 BB/9, 6.45 K/9

2017 after Dodgers series: 5.00 ERA, 5.5 BB/9, 11 K/9

2018: 5.13 ERA, 2.1 BB/9, 8.5 K/9

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#26 Dantes929

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:21 AM

 

My opinion: the walks aren’t exactly intentional, but not exactly unintentional either. They’re a byproduct of his changed approach. Instead of the previous regime’s “pitch to contact and avoid walks AT ALL COSTS” approach, he’s not throwing a cookie every time he falls behind 1-0 or 2-1. He’s still trying to throw a pitch on the edge of the zone. Sometimes he misses and walks guys...sometimes he hits a corner and gets back in the count. Either way, there’s fewer “sinkers” in the whomp-em zone.

Walks are less damaging than hits. Giving up 2 walks more per game, but 2 fewer hits works in a pitchers favor every time. He’s also K’ing more hitters, which helps.

Give me this approach every time over that pitch to contact mantra we’ve lived with for years.

Well some of that is true. The knock on Gibson (as I remember) was never that he was pitch to contact but that he was a guy that tried to peck at the corners rather than trust his stuff. Fell behind in counts and then had to groove one. My own knock on him was that he seemed to throw the same pitch over and over again when he appeared to have a really nice curveball that he rarely used. The pitch to contact failed because we didn't have guys who were good at it. Gibson's stuff now would have played well any year.Or do you think his stuff now is the same as it was in the past?I think he went whole games without throwing a ball that bends as much as he threw to nearly every guy last night.If the mantra of the past was truly throw the same pitch at the same speed every time so you don't walk anyone then I am with you. 

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#27 USAFChief

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:29 AM

Well some of that is true. The knock on Gibson (as I remember) was never that he was pitch to contact but that he was a guy that tried to peck at the corners rather than trust his stuff. Fell behind in counts and then had to groove one. My own knock on him was that he seemed to throw the same pitch over and over again when he appeared to have a really nice curveball that he rarely used. The pitch to contact failed because we didn't have guys who were good at it. Gibson's stuff now would have played well any year. Or do you think his stuff now is the same as it was in the past? I think he went whole games without throwing a ball that bends as much as he threw to nearly every guy last night. If the mantra of the past was truly throw the same pitch at the same speed every time so you don't walk anyone then I am with you.

No, I think it’s more than that. He still falls behind hitters, except now he doesn’t feel he “has to groove one.”

More 4 seamers, fewer 2 seamers. More breaking balls.

End result, walks are up, hits down. Hard contact down. K’s up. WHIP down. ERA down.

He’s not pitching the same, IMO.

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#28 adorduan

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:36 AM

 

Well some of that is true. The knock on Gibson (as I remember) was never that he was pitch to contact but that he was a guy that tried to peck at the corners rather than trust his stuff. Fell behind in counts and then had to groove one. My own knock on him was that he seemed to throw the same pitch over and over again when he appeared to have a really nice curveball that he rarely used. The pitch to contact failed because we didn't have guys who were good at it. Gibson's stuff now would have played well any year.Or do you think his stuff now is the same as it was in the past?I think he went whole games without throwing a ball that bends as much as he threw to nearly every guy last night.If the mantra of the past was truly throw the same pitch at the same speed every time so you don't walk anyone then I am with you. 

Is it just me or is his curve ball a lot better than in years past? I just don't remember seeing it break as much as it has this year....


#29 Halsey Hall

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 11:07 AM

As Dozier goes, so go the Twins.

he gone!


#30 Mike Sixel

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 11:40 AM

Great win!

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#31 IndianaTwin

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 01:09 PM

I get the love for Magill -- I've been impressed too, but I think that going to Hildenberger and Rogers was the right move. 

 

Think of the bullpen in tiers and roles:

  • Rodney is the closer, and the hope was not to use him.
  • Reed and Pressley are the guys he's had confidence in in tight games, but we're all complaining that they are overused, and it was a five-run lead. It was right not to use them.
  • Duke is the Loogy and threw 13 pitches on Tuesday and 15 on Thursday. It was right not to use him.

That leaves Hildenberger, Pressley, Magill, and Belisle. Magill has been impressive, and threw 3.1 and 3 innings in his last two outings. It would have been easy to give him two innings. Last Tuesday, he threw 3 innings and kept the team in the game -- you need a guy who can go multiple innings when a starter gets blown out early, and it appears that there is reason to have confidence in him in this role. Molitor also has his least-experienced pitcher starting today and "5-inning Odorizzi" tomorrow, so it's not a bad thing to have the multiple-inning guy fresh.

 

By contrast, Hildenberger and Rogers are both primarily one-inning guys. Since April 30, Hildy had thrown 22.2 innings with a 1.19 ERA and a 0.79 WHIP. In the same time period, Rogers had thrown 15 innings with a 1.80 ERA and a 0.87 WHIP. Both were also well-rested. Hildy had thrown twice in the last eight days, including only 23 pitches since last Saturday. Rogers had thrown once in the last eight days, 10 pitches on Sunday. 

 

So to me, it was better to give Hildy and Rogers an inning each and continue building them into guys that he can go to in higher-leverage situations in the 7th and 8th. With their history, they are probably the next options to use in the Reed/Pressley roles. Hildy pitched fine and Rogers just happened to have his first clunker in more than a month. It happens.

 

And by going just one inning each, Hildy and Rogers are both are likely still available for today or tomorrow. Plus Magill is still ready for a longer outing today or tomorrow if needed -- had he gone two innings, he probably wouldn't be available today and probably not tomorrow.

 

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#32 Mike Sixel

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 01:23 PM

I get the love for Magill -- I've been impressed too, but I think that going to Hildenberger and Rogers was the right move.

Think of the bullpen in tiers and roles:

  • Rodney is the closer, and the hope was not to use him.
  • Reed and Pressley are the guys he's had confidence in in tight games, but we're all complaining that they are overused, and it was a five-run lead. It was right not to use them.
  • Duke is the Loogy and threw 13 pitches on Tuesday and 15 on Thursday. It was right not to use him.
That leaves Hildenberger, Pressley, Magill, and Belisle. Magill has been impressive, and threw 3.1 and 3 innings in his last two outings. It would have been easy to give him two innings. Last Tuesday, he threw 3 innings and kept the team in the game -- you need a guy who can go multiple innings when a starter gets blown out early, and it appears that there is reason to have confidence in him in this role. Molitor also has his least-experienced pitcher starting today and "5-inning Odorizzi" tomorrow, so it's not a bad thing to have the multiple-inning guy fresh.

By contrast, Hildenberger and Rogers are both primarily one-inning guys. Since April 30, Hildy had thrown 22.2 innings with a 1.19 ERA and a 0.79 WHIP. In the same time period, Rogers had thrown 15 innings with a 1.80 ERA and a 0.87 WHIP. Both were also well-rested. Hildy had thrown twice in the last eight days, including only 23 pitches since last Saturday. Rogers had thrown once in the last eight days, 10 pitches on Sunday.

So to me, it was better to give Hildy and Rogers an inning each and continue building them into guys that he can go to in higher-leverage situations in the 7th and 8th. With their history, they are probably the next options to use in the Reed/Pressley roles. Hildy pitched fine and Rogers just happened to have his first clunker in more than a month. It happens.

And by going just one inning each, Hildy and Rogers are both are likely still available for today or tomorrow. Plus Magill is still ready for a longer outing today or tomorrow if needed -- had he gone two innings, he probably wouldn't be available today and probably not tomorrow.

Great post

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#33 mikelink45

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 02:04 PM

 

Yeah, it seems like Motter is just a placeholder until Polanco gets here. He has a little upside and it doesn't seem like the team is willing to give any of the younger guys an opportunity, so it's back to the scrap heap.

 

The Twins position players just can't stay healthy... and now Polanco's cutting his hand on a car door... bleh.

 

Rogers just hasn't been the same since facing the Dodgers in July of last year. Here's his stats:

 

2016: 3.96 ERA, 2.3 BB/9, 9.4 K/9

2017 before Dodgers series: 2.15 ERA, 2.4 BB/9, 6.45 K/9

2017 after Dodgers series: 5.00 ERA, 5.5 BB/9, 11 K/9

2018: 5.13 ERA, 2.1 BB/9, 8.5 K/9

Great information - thanks.I think they need to get one of the minor league relievers to take Rogers place.If Polanco is not getting ready for the season it is beyond time that the team looked for the next step.

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#34 Carole Keller

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 02:57 PM

Great information - thanks.I think they need to get one of the minor league relievers to take Rogers place.If Polanco is not getting ready for the season it is beyond time that the team looked for the next step.


Polanco cut his finger. While his rehab assignment is pushed back, they still think he’ll be ready July 2.

There was this:
https://www.twinciti...-july-2-return/

Followed by this:
https://www.cbssport...nt-pushed-back/
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#35 DocBauer

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 07:10 PM

I get the love for Magill -- I've been impressed too, but I think that going to Hildenberger and Rogers was the right move. 
 
Think of the bullpen in tiers and roles:

  • Rodney is the closer, and the hope was not to use him.
  • Reed and Pressley are the guys he's had confidence in in tight games, but we're all complaining that they are overused, and it was a five-run lead. It was right not to use them.
  • Duke is the Loogy and threw 13 pitches on Tuesday and 15 on Thursday. It was right not to use him.
That leaves Hildenberger, Pressley, Magill, and Belisle. Magill has been impressive, and threw 3.1 and 3 innings in his last two outings. It would have been easy to give him two innings. Last Tuesday, he threw 3 innings and kept the team in the game -- you need a guy who can go multiple innings when a starter gets blown out early, and it appears that there is reason to have confidence in him in this role. Molitor also has his least-experienced pitcher starting today and "5-inning Odorizzi" tomorrow, so it's not a bad thing to have the multiple-inning guy fresh.
 
By contrast, Hildenberger and Rogers are both primarily one-inning guys. Since April 30, Hildy had thrown 22.2 innings with a 1.19 ERA and a 0.79 WHIP. In the same time period, Rogers had thrown 15 innings with a 1.80 ERA and a 0.87 WHIP. Both were also well-rested. Hildy had thrown twice in the last eight days, including only 23 pitches since last Saturday. Rogers had thrown once in the last eight days, 10 pitches on Sunday. 
 
So to me, it was better to give Hildy and Rogers an inning each and continue building them into guys that he can go to in higher-leverage situations in the 7th and 8th. With their history, they are probably the next options to use in the Reed/Pressley roles. Hildy pitched fine and Rogers just happened to have his first clunker in more than a month. It happens.
 
And by going just one inning each, Hildy and Rogers are both are likely still available for today or tomorrow. Plus Magill is still ready for a longer outing today or tomorrow if needed -- had he gone two innings, he probably wouldn't be available today and probably not tomorrow.

I echo "great post", though a game late now. My only argument is Duke as a LOOGY. For his career, he's been equally effective against both sides of the plate.

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#36 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 09:09 AM

I echo "great post", though a game late now. My only argument is Duke as a LOOGY. For his career, he's been equally effective against both sides of the plate.


Duke has a career .699 OPS against vs. lefties, .808 vs. righties.



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