Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

NBA Offseason 2018

  • Please log in to reply
183 replies to this topic

#21 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 15,179 posts

Posted 02 July 2018 - 08:54 PM

 

Or find a way to move Wiggins and build around Butler and Towns. 

 

A guy can dream....

 

I worry about Butler being an injury time bomb.With how bleak the West looks - I'd be shopping him hard right now.


#22 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,205 posts

Posted 02 July 2018 - 09:51 PM

 

The NBA is so broken.Time to totally blow up their "salary cap" and all the absurd exceptions that come with it.

 

This kind of thing damages their product.

Agreed.I was just about to post something along similar lines.Though I'm not sure what the solution is. 

  • TheLeviathan and Vanimal46 like this

#23 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,601 posts

Posted 02 July 2018 - 09:57 PM

 

I worry about Butler being an injury time bomb.With how bleak the West looks - I'd be shopping him hard right now.

Fair enough. Thibs will find a way to run Butler into the ground if he hasn't already. Honestly, Thib's fascination with molasses offense might have something to do with how ineffective Wiggins can be, but that still doesn't explain his god awful defense. 

 

I get why you'd want to move Butler, but unless they get a haul in return I just don't see this team making any sort of noise with Wiggins as their second best player. Without Jimmy the Wolves are at best fighting for a low playoff seed and drafting around 16-20, i.e. NBA purgatory, and at worst they're a bottom 10 team. 

  • Taildragger8791 likes this

#24 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 15,179 posts

Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:32 PM

Fair enough. Thibs will find a way to run Butler into the ground if he hasn't already. Honestly, Thib's fascination with molasses offense might have something to do with how ineffective Wiggins can be, but that still doesn't explain his god awful defense.

I get why you'd want to move Butler, but unless they get a haul in return I just don't see this team making any sort of noise with Wiggins as their second best player. Without Jimmy the Wolves are at best fighting for a low playoff seed and drafting around 16-20, i.e. NBA purgatory, and at worst they're a bottom 10 team.

Without Jimmy they are in the lottery, but I would hope to land some talent for him. It's time to aim 2-3 years down the road.

Truth is, Wiggins is a negative asset, he can't be moved. Jimmy has one year left and I don't think he stays. And I'm not sure I want to stick 4 years and 130M in him even if he does.

Edited by TheLeviathan, 02 July 2018 - 11:33 PM.


#25 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 15,179 posts

Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:35 PM

Agreed. I was just about to post something along similar lines. Though I'm not sure what the solution is.

I'd start with either having a cap or dont. This Frankenstien hybrid is having the opposite of the intended effect. (Competitive balance)

Go the NFL/NHL model or MLB. I'd argue the NHL model would fit basketball really well.

Edited by TheLeviathan, 02 July 2018 - 11:36 PM.


#26 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,205 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 12:02 AM

 

I'd start with either having a cap or dont. This Frankenstien hybrid is having the opposite of the intended effect. (Competitive balance)

Go the NFL/NHL model or MLB. I'd argue the NHL model would fit basketball really well.

Right, the mid-level/trade exceptions, bird rights, etc. etc.  

 

I am a bit surprised the phenomenon of stars joining together hasn't come to fruition in other sports.Perhaps part of it is, that the NBA has only five starters/players-on-the-court, so each star has arguably close to one-fifth leverage, while in the NFL and MLB, it's no where near that close. 

 

Though one could imagine where a bunch of free agent MLB starters came to be free agents at the same time, and all formed the same rotation...

Edited by PseudoSABR, 03 July 2018 - 12:02 AM.

  • TheLeviathan and Vanimal46 like this

#27 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,485 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 03 July 2018 - 07:25 AM

Agreed. I was just about to post something along similar lines. Though I'm not sure what the solution is.


Hard to know what they can do when players accept contracts way under market value to build super teams.

Is there any intrigue at all to watch the regular season? Golden State is all but guaranteed to win the title again. The rest are playing for 2nd place.
  • Tomj14 likes this

#28 Tomj14

Tomj14

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 529 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 07:33 AM

 

Hard to know what they can do when players accept contracts way under market value to build super teams.

Is there any intrigue at all to watch the regular season? Golden State is all but guaranteed to win the title again. The rest are playing for 2nd place.

I think the solution is to get rid of at least 4 teams maybe 8, Minnesota being the first to go, No star player wants to come here thus making it impossible for them to actually compete in this NBA.

  • Taildragger8791 likes this

#29 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,485 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 03 July 2018 - 07:43 AM

I think the solution is to get rid of at least 4 teams maybe 8, Minnesota being the first to go, No star player wants to come here thus making it impossible for them to actually compete in this NBA.


True. For Minnesota their current strategy is really the only way they can compete for a couple of years. Get lucky with a couple of #1 overall picks, trade for a good player, and hope for the best. They won't ever be able to recruit a stud FA.
  • Tomj14 likes this

#30 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 15,179 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 08:26 AM

Hard to know what they can do when players accept contracts way under market value to build super teams.
Is there any intrigue at all to watch the regular season? Golden State is all but guaranteed to win the title again. The rest are playing for 2nd place.


A hard cap would still fix a lot of this.

#31 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,601 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 09:55 AM

 

Without Jimmy they are in the lottery, but I would hope to land some talent for him. It's time to aim 2-3 years down the road.

Truth is, Wiggins is a negative asset, he can't be moved. Jimmy has one year left and I don't think he stays. And I'm not sure I want to stick 4 years and 130M in him even if he does.

Agreed, they showed how bad they are w/o Jimmy. 

 

KAT might already be on the way out but if he isn't it certainly won't be easy to sell him on being a lottery team for a few more seasons. If Towns doesn't want to play for Thibs (can't blame him) and he's out then I agree, you sell now and hope to put together pieces down the line. That's sad though.

 

If you can extend Towns and Butler I think you have to do it and then try to fill out the roster around them. I certainly don't love handing Jimmy 4/130 but I'm not sure I'm on board with passing on a superstar and a competitive team, for the hope of finding young talent down the road. 

  • TheLeviathan likes this

#32 Taildragger8791

Taildragger8791

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 889 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 09:58 AM

 

A hard cap would still fix a lot of this.

 

And removing or fixing max contracts. Top-10 players won't group up as much if it means taking a discount of $10-$15 million instead of $2-5 million.

 

The reality is the league is driven and dominated by the top 10-15 players and having 30 teams just doesn't make sense. You could lop off 10 teams and nobody would miss them. Or start a relegation system so the non-contenders have something interesting to compete for (getting back to the top tier) and to put an end to tanking (hopefully).

 

Also, I hope they can find a solution to these Wiggins-type situations. Teams shouldn't have to make 5-year $150 million commitments to unproven 22 year olds just so they can gamble on the chance that player will eventually develop. At least offer a graceful way out (for both player and team) of albatross deals so it doesn't destroy a budding franchise. I have no idea how you make that work though. I guess I'm just venting.


#33 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,485 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 03 July 2018 - 10:06 AM

And removing or fixing max contracts. Top-10 players won't group up as much if it means taking a discount of $10-$15 million instead of $2-5 million.

The reality is the league is driven and dominated by the top 10-15 players and having 30 teams just doesn't make sense. You could lop off 10 teams and nobody would miss them. Or start a relegation system so the non-contenders have something interesting to compete for (getting back to the top tier) and to put an end to tanking (hopefully).

Also, I hope they can find a solution to these Wiggins-type situations. Teams shouldn't have to make 5-year $150 million commitments to unproven 22 year olds just so they can gamble on the chance that player will eventually develop. At least offer a graceful way out (for both player and team) of albatross deals so it doesn't destroy a budding franchise. I have no idea how you make that work though. I guess I'm just venting.


Teams like Minnesota doesn't really have a choice offering max contracts to people that haven't earned it yet. There's only so many stars in the NBA worth that kind of money, and none are willing to come to Minnesota...

The few things they can do is offer that kind of money who has the potential to be good. But more than likely it's going to be a bad deal. Or continue to let young talent walk after their rookie deals are over.

#34 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 15,179 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 10:09 AM

 

Agreed, they showed how bad they are w/o Jimmy. 

 

KAT might already be on the way out but if he isn't it certainly won't be easy to sell him on being a lottery team for a few more seasons. If Towns doesn't want to play for Thibs (can't blame him) and he's out then I agree, you sell now and hope to put together pieces down the line. That's sad though.

 

If you can extend Towns and Butler I think you have to do it and then try to fill out the roster around them. I certainly don't love handing Jimmy 4/130 but I'm not sure I'm on board with passing on a superstar and a competitive team, for the hope of finding young talent down the road. 

 

I know this won't happen as long as Thibs is here, but I'd call the Lakers, the Celtics, and the Sixers about Butler right now.Be there plan B if they can't land Kawhi Leonard.I think you could get a guy like Kouzma or Jaylen Brown or Saric in a deal for him.

 

Plus, I think pairing one of those guys with KAT and Wig might be better for everyone.

  • KirbyDome89 likes this

#35 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,205 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 10:16 AM

There needs to be an arbitration system to govern the first six years (if not more) of a basketball players career.Given the age that players come into the league, a four year rookie contract is a bit absurd, and the resources spent developing, often does so for another team.

  • Taildragger8791 likes this

#36 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,601 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 11:33 AM

 

I know this won't happen as long as Thibs is here, but I'd call the Lakers, the Celtics, and the Sixers about Butler right now.Be there plan B if they can't land Kawhi Leonard.I think you could get a guy like Kouzma or Jaylen Brown or Saric in a deal for him.

 

Plus, I think pairing one of those guys with KAT and Wig might be better for everyone.

Kouzma might be tough to pull but if I'm Boston or Philly I can't sign those papers fast enough. 


#37 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 15,179 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 12:02 PM

 

Kouzma might be tough to pull but if I'm Boston or Philly I can't sign those papers fast enough. 

 

Right, I'd probably want a bit more with both of those guys, but there are definitely deals that could be made.Too bad it's a pipe dream.

  • KirbyDome89 likes this

#38 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,601 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 01:56 PM

 

Right, I'd probably want a bit more with both of those guys, but there are definitely deals that could be made.Too bad it's a pipe dream.

http://www.startribu...owns/487248281/

 

That Jimmy trade is looking more likely. What a mess...


#39 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 15,179 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:08 PM

 

http://www.startribu...owns/487248281/

 

That Jimmy trade is looking more likely. What a mess...

 

I kind of hope this is true.Trading him to Boston opens up all sorts of options.  

 

Ask for Brown and the 2019 pick that will likely be the Kings pick and I sign off.


#40 Taildragger8791

Taildragger8791

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 889 posts

Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:30 PM

I was curious after the contraction ideas so I did a little digging. Out of current franchises:

  • 12 have never won a championship. Seven have never even made a finals appearance
  • 8 franchises (and one that went defunct in the early 50's) have exactly 1 championship
  • The remaining 10 teams have the rest of the 63 titles in league history, with 50 of them belonging to only 5 teams

This just exemplifies that most teams aren't playing for anything unless they get supremely lucky, and now this era of superteams is driving the point home even more. Most of the league is made up of glorified farm teams and patsies that they've been able to sell as competitive basketball. I'd rather start picking the squads and players I want to follow on a year-by-year basis rather than hoping my hometown squad of overpaid misfits can pull enough crap together to make things interesting.

  • PseudoSABR and TheLeviathan like this