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Article: Twins Sign Belisle: What Does This Mean?

matt belisle alan busenitz john curtiss paul molitor
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#61 gagu

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:31 PM

I think we all sometimes make too much out of relatively common minor mid-season transactions. Maybe they're playing a hunch with the important Cleveland series coming up the weekend. Articles have been written recently about Molitor´s over-use of his bullpen stalwarts, four of the fifty MLB relievers with 30 or more appearances are Twins, plus Rogers with 27 and Rodney with 24. Maybe he hopes to use Belisle as a veteran crutch to help give the others a break if only for a short time. Who knows? There are so many nuances involved in a long season and a 40-man roster. 

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#62 KirbyDome89

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:32 PM

 

Falvine really hasn’t had the chance to select and develop potential relievers yet. They inherited all the players at A ball and above.

The only reliever that made his MLB debut during Falvine’s tenure that has done well is Hildenberger, and he had a rough start to this year. To the point that many were calling for him to be sent to AAA. No one else has done well enough to hold a spot. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the system’s supposed surplus of relievers.

Part of that is giving some of those minor league relief arms an actual chance, even if that chance results in failure. 

 

Busenitz has thrown all of 4 innings this year, and Curtiss has logged 2/3 of an inning. It's hard to earn anything with limited amount of work. 

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#63 Brandon

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:31 PM

Busenitz (1.9 BB/9 at Rochester) and Duffey (2.3) need to work on their control? Or we're just going to lump them in with other pitchers who do, for no apparent reason except to justify signing Belisle as our 13th pitcher?


Notice i said most. All the other pitchers mentioned in the article were around 4 walks per 9 innings.
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#64 spycake

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:47 PM

Notice i said most. All the other pitchers mentioned in the article were around 4 walks per 9 innings.


So what's the reason for keeping those two down?

#65 jorgenswest

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:06 PM

The only possible reason is that the front office doesn’t believe that Duffey and Busenitz will not perform well at the major league level.

It that is the case, they had last year to make that assessment and it is a critical failure that they did not find better alternatives this winter.

On the other hand if they believe either or both can be relievers on a competitive major league team it is a critical failure to keep them in AAA behind Belisle.

There is no way I can know whether Duffey or Busenitz have the talent to be a good piece in a bullpen. I do know that the Twins bullpen has cost them more games than reasonable and that responsibility is on the shoulders of the front office and coaching staff.

#66 launchingthrees

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:19 PM

 

On the other hand if they believe either or both can be relievers on a competitive major league team it is a critical failure to keep them in AAA behind Belisle.

There is no way I can know whether Duffey or Busenitz have the talent to be a good piece in a bullpen. I do know that the Twins bullpen has cost them more games than reasonable and that responsibility is on the shoulders of the front office and coaching staff.

 

Really? The bullpen has been good enough this year. The team has a bunch of issues but calling bullpen management by the FO a "critical failure" seems odd given how much they've improved. What would you consider a good bullpen ERA?

Edited by launchingthrees, 13 June 2018 - 04:24 PM.

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#67 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:28 PM

Really? The bullpen has been good enough this year. The team has a bunch of issues but calling bullpen management by the FO a "critical failure" seems odd given how much they've improved. What would you consider a good bullpen ERA?


Well it's currently 21st in baseball, by ERA.
Certainly a lot of room for improvement there, IMO.
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#68 yarnivek1972

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:30 PM

Really? The bullpen has been good enough this year. The team has a bunch of issues but calling bullpen management by the FO a "critical failure" seems odd given how much they've improved. What would you consider a good bullpen ERA?

The Twins have allowed MLB worst 42% of inherited runners to score. Only the Tigers (who have played 5 more games) have more blown saves than the Twins 13.

Then there is the Twins abysmal 3-13 record in one run games.

All of these are signs of a BAD bullpen - that you are calling “good enough”. Good enough for what?


Actually, I’ll answer my own question. Good enough to result in a 29-34 record.

Edited by yarnivek1972, 13 June 2018 - 04:58 PM.

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#69 caninatl04

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:57 PM

 

Seems like Twins will deal relievers here soon, and certainly at the deadline if they are not in it.

 

Belisle is insurance.

 

You deal Rodney and Belisle becomes an experrienced late-inning guy. Reed or Pressly gets hurt, you still have Belisle.

 

No one has to like this move, but it is about getting through the season should the worst, or some kind of trade/injury happen.

I appreciate your point, but I think AAA provides better insurance.


#70 jtkoupal

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:04 PM

We must be careful how much we criticize the front office. After all, they do know more than we do.

 

Let's also keep in mind that they have tried guys like Busenitz, Curtiss, and Duffey with suboptimal results to say the least.

 

I haven't been around the clubhouse, so I have no input on the kind of leadership he brings or the kind of person he is. However, if the front office thinks enough of him to bring him back, I'm sure there is a good reason. It's unlikely they would bring him back if they didn't have faith in him.

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#71 caninatl04

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:12 PM

 

The Twins have allowed MLB worst 42% of inherited runners to score. Only the Tigers (who have played 5 more games) have more blown saves than the Twins 13.

Then there is the Twins abysmal 3-13 record in one run games.

All of these are signs of a BAD bullpen - that you are calling “good enough”. Good enough for what?


Actually, I’ll answer my own question. Good enough to result in a 29-34 record.

I am less willing to attribute the 1-run game record to the bullpen.I attribute it more to a GOOD pitching staff, but an offense that scores 1 or 2 runs quite frequently.


#72 yarnivek1972

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:14 PM

I am less willing to attribute the 1-run game record to the bullpen. I attribute it more to a GOOD pitching staff, but an offense that scores 1 or 2 runs quite frequently.


Taken by itself, I would agree. Taken in conjunction with the other mentioned stats, it is an additional sign that the bullpen is bad.

#73 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:43 PM

 

Speaking of: The raccoon on the bank building and Belisle on a MLB roster. What do they have in common?

Neither belong where they are?

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#74 snepp

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:41 PM

The pen in April was right there as the 2nd or 3rd worst in the league. Since then it has been much, much better.

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#75 Platoon

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:45 PM

Neither belong where they are?

Bingo...... But now the raccoon is in the woods, and Belisle was already on the mound.
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#76 launchingthrees

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:43 PM

 

The Twins have allowed MLB worst 42% of inherited runners to score. Only the Tigers (who have played 5 more games) have more blown saves than the Twins 13.

Then there is the Twins abysmal 3-13 record in one run games.

All of these are signs of a BAD bullpen - that you are calling “good enough”. Good enough for what?


Actually, I’ll answer my own question. Good enough to result in a 29-34 record.

 

What you are seeing as blowing 1 run leads I see as variance, statistical noise. This is a really good bullpen, overused, but really good. At least a lot better than the team we're chasing. If there's a problem with the bullpen moving forward it's because Molitor is about as advanced in his decision making as a 1980s college coach.

 

I would have already fired him for his bullpen management. Ask Addison Reed whether he regrets signing with the Twins. I guarantee Pressley wants out too.

Edited by launchingthrees, 13 June 2018 - 10:19 PM.

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#77 USAFChief

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:22 PM

What you are seeing as blowing 1 run leads I see as variance, statistical noise. This is a really good bullpen, overused, but really good. At least a lot better than the team we're chasing. If there's a problem with the bullpen moving forward it's because Molitor is about as advanced in his decision making as a 1980s college coach.
 
I would have already fired him for his bullpen management. Ask Addison Reed whether he regrets signing with the Twins. I guarantee Pressley wants out too.


Maybe you have that backwards. Ask the Twins if they regret signing Addison Reed. He has had a pretty damaging couple weeks.

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#78 launchingthrees

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:39 PM

 

Maybe you have that backwards. Ask the Twins if they regret signing Addison Reed. He has had a pretty damaging couple weeks.

 

Sure. That's possible. I just think it's a lot more likely that we had 2 elite relief pitchers that were Thibodeau'd and now they can't get anyone out. You can't be thrilled with their Usage % right? It's unheard of in the modern era. I'm almost certain that within the last couple weeks the FO told Molitor that he needed to change his usage. It was cringeworthy.

Edited by launchingthrees, 13 June 2018 - 10:46 PM.


#79 curt1965

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:33 AM

Molitor only trusts “veterans (old farts), and obviously can’t relate to younger players. This has been the MAIN criticism of him in his tenure with the Twins. I think it’s pretty obvious he cannot manage a major league pitching staff.
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#80 h2oface

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:34 AM

I just threw up again tonight when I thought about the Belisle signing........




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