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Mensa guy's radical ideas for changing baseball.

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#21 Platoon

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 01:35 PM

I am surprised no one has mentioned soccer, especially when discussing the long term future. I wouldn't walk across my living room to watch soccer, but it's growing like crazy I think baseball will outlive the NFL. But I don't think the NFL will outlive soccer. Trying to deal with the head injuries will change the game significantly. I totally agree with gunnarthor, 3 outcomes baseball is boring. Working pitch counts is boring. And shifts are frustrating. That said I totally understand the shifts for the purposes of competition. . But watching guys flail away trying to hit HR's is simply a step above HR Derby. UGH. It would be a shame, and ironic, if metrics so improved the evaluations of players values and processes, and at the same time ruined the most interesting parts of the sport. HR's are exciting when the big guys hit them, you look for that. But when 5' 10" IF are constantly jacking for one, it starts to resemble slow pitch. And for heavens sake, solve the endless 3-2 counts. If you watch a game on TiVo you can almost skip the first 4 pitches of an AB. Sheesh!
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#22 zenser

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 01:35 PM

Growing up, we didn't have cable/dish until I was in late high school.I remember love going to a hotel or somewhere where they had ESPN so i could watch highlights on Sportscenter or Baseball tonight.I rarely watch ESPN now and I couldn't tell you if Baseball Tonight was still on.The few times I have watched Sportscenter recently, baseball was hardly, if at all, mentioned.I don't care what LeBron wore to the arena before the game.I don't care what Stephen A Smith says.Just put some more baseball new/highlights/stories on and let the younger generation get exposed to it. 

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#23 Thrylos

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 02:11 PM

 

Demographic, attendance, and popularity trends indicate that it may be in trouble soon. Yeah, your car is running, but the check engine light is on.

 

What check engine light?Imaginary? 

 

Fact:MLB revenue by year: Look at the rates of growth from 2001-2009 and 2010-2017. This is a business in growth.

 

27871544437_a2a65b8282_b.jpg

Edited by Thrylos, 11 June 2018 - 02:22 PM.

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#24 Thrylos

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 02:21 PM

 

perhaps the worst advice ever for running a business. If you aren't trying to be better every day, you aren't trying.

 

 

I totally agree.However you really need to figure out what better really looks like from the perspective of your customer.Got to make changes to improve the experience of your customer and solve his/her problems and speak to their needs, not to develop products for products' sake or make change for change's sake.

 

I'd love MLB to go out there and gather data from customers (and they have plenty in their CRM, start with the mlb.tv subscribers) about what they want to see in the game.Go poll 50,000 people and publish the responses.If a particular change has more than 75% support, they should implement them.

 

Also, they should go to prospectives who are not customers and ask what it will take to make them customers.Then take the higher answers and pass them through the group of customers.If 75% + of them say ok, implement it.

 

That's how businesses make successful change. Data shows (up there) that baseball is a successful growing business.Unless particular changes will not alienate most of your customers you don't need to make changes.

 

 

 

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#25 Thrylos

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 02:30 PM

Here is this other piece of data also:

 

2017 

Total attendance:

MLB
72,678,797

NBA
21,972,129
NHL
21,501,156
NFL
17,510,312

 

 

I wonder which league has the least problem here...

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#26 Vanimal46

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 02:45 PM

Posting raw attendance numbers is nonsense.

162 games in MLB
82 for NHL/NBA
16 for NFL

Edited by Vanimal46, 11 June 2018 - 02:46 PM.

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#27 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 03:07 PM

Posting raw attendance numbers is nonsense.
162 games in MLB
82 for NHL/NBA
16 for NFL


Correct. Revenue numbers are good right now, but that isn't the issue.

The issue is that strictly white males, most of whom are over 50 are your paying customers. And those younger are checked out.

Any sane business person is going to see huge red flags.
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#28 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 03:17 PM

Do you have a source for that or is it just what you're seeing? Attendance for baseball and football have dropped roughly the same as people don't go to games as much anymore.
 
But we've heard "baseball is dying" stories for several generations now.

According to Nelson the baseball audience was 41% composed of 55+ aged people in 2007, now it's 55%.

This compiles the issues well. Even the commissioner admits the problem.

https://www.washingt...m=.81a38daf005b
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#29 Platoon

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 03:23 PM

Sad, really.... We may know more about Babe Ruth than Mike Trout when it's all said and done.

That's because Babe Ruth would have never went 1-12 against the Twins :)
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#30 mikelink45

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 03:27 PM

As a man in his seventies I will not get into the 7 - 15 debate except to say I have five grandchildren in that age group and none of them are interested in baseball - none, not a bit.They like LaCrosse, Soccer, NFL, fishing, and running.And as much as they like their granddad it does not affect their choices.

 

What I can say is that I have been a baseball fan from grade school and the K, BB, HR era is boring.It is like being forced to eat ice cream for all three meals for a month.Too much of a good thing. People wanted HRs, but they do not want a season long HR derby.

 

Sure pitching duels can be boring - especially if they last for 3 1/2 hours.

 

I like some of these ideas - the fan gifts like the one that eliminates the out when a foot twitches and leaves the bag for a minute. I remember when I was young and the ball park was filled with transistor radios.I always wanted the PA to give me more. 

 

I love making the relief pitcher have to get three outs - my belief (in one of my blogs) is that we should limit the game to three pitchers for each team for each game.Finally some strategy and not the wasted two visits, the trip in, and the 8 warm up pitches.They just got done warming up!How about making relief pitchers come in to start innings and not break up the suspense.  

 

Or how about putting a time limit on the game - play as many innings as you can for 2 1/2 hours? 

 

I know - some of you will say - don't fix it if it ain't broken.But right now this game is traveling down a rocky road without a spare.It is the only sport I follow and I find so few others who are committed to the game.This site is so important because the seam heads can talk to each other and even debate without rancor - I hope.

 

But 16 NFL games catch so much attention and the NBA and NHL play a long and tedious set of warmup games to eliminate half their league and begin the real season called the playoffs.I do not want either of those things for our sport.No more in the playoffs.However, while I do not want 16 games I do want 154.We do not need those last 8 - what makes 162 the right number?Of course I am not speaking for the owners.I do not care about them, I am thinking of what I like.I want the world series to be played without snow.

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#31 spycake

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 03:57 PM

This compiles the issues well. Even the commissioner admits the problem.

https://www.washingt...m=.81a38daf005b


To be fair, I think this particular commissioner is willing to admit any problem and consider any remedy for it. Just seems ingrained in his public persona.
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#32 h2oface

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:16 PM

 

MLB certainly needs to market their young stars better. Mike Trout may end up being the best player in generations, and I know nothing about him personally.

On the other hand, I don't watch basketball yet I know LeBron's political/social stances, his kid is also really good at basketball, and who his buddies are in the NBA.

 

I find that if I want to know something about someone or something, I can find out tons just by looking for it. If I just ingest the "marketing", I likely will still not really know much, and what I know will be designed to sell me something, instead of really be educating me. If you can't find anything about Mike Trout, then you aren't really trying. And if you don't just ingest the marketing, you might find details like that his dad, Jeff Trout, was in the Twins' system and quit baseball when Ron Gardenhire was traded for and took his spot in AAA that he deserved and earned (his AA stats were off the charts), and the Twins then wanted Jeff to go play in AA for a third year....... Gardenhire could very well be the reason Mike Trout is around, for if his dad wouldn't have quit then, there probably would have been no Mike... Jeff would not have stopped and started a family.....some other child of theirs later, but no Mike. The timing of the creation of Mike Trout might be Gardenhire's greatest accomplishment, little known that it is.

 

My source for the info was in this cover article in 2012... by Tom Verducci
https://www.sportsme...vgaAi6_EALw_wcB

Edited by h2oface, 11 June 2018 - 04:26 PM.

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#33 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:23 PM

To be fair, I think this particular commissioner is willing to admit any problem and consider any remedy for it. Just seems ingrained in his public persona.


Sure, there also are facts that give credence to his worries.

As a baseball fan, I'm happy there is a worried Commish over a complacent one.

#34 h2oface

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:30 PM

 

Correct. Revenue numbers are good right now, but that isn't the issue.

The issue is that strictly white males, most of whom are over 50 are your paying customers. And those younger are checked out.

Any sane business person is going to see huge red flags.

 

Are you talking about the voting booth? Or Baseball?

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#35 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:31 PM

As a man in his seventies I will not get into the 7 - 15 debate except to say I have five grandchildren in that age group and none of them are interested in baseball - none, not a bit.They like LaCrosse, Soccer, NFL, fishing, and running.And as much as they like their granddad it does not affect their choices.


I have taught several hundred children and experienced the tastes, fads, and passions of several thousand children and I can tell you that your grandchildren are like the vast majority of their peers.

Baseball is not a love for them. It's not even of much interest to them.
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#36 Thrylos

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:49 PM

 

Posting raw attendance numbers is nonsense.

162 games in MLB
82 for NHL/NBA
16 for NFL

 

Not really. More butts on seats year after year for the MLB than any other sport...

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#37 Vanimal46

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 06:41 PM

Not really. More butts on seats year after year for the MLB than any other sport...


Did you measure per game?
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#38 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 06:54 PM

Did you measure per game?

Even that is a mis leading argument. It’s best to compare apples to apples, which is MLB now to MLB past. In both the case of national viewership and league wide attendance the figures are declining.

Now, what happens when 51% of your audience dies in the next 20 years? That’s the heart of the issue and arguments like the one Thrylos is spinning are fallacious and misleading from that central point.

Edited by TheLeviathan, 11 June 2018 - 06:56 PM.

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#39 nicksaviking

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:05 PM

Do you have a source for that or is it just what you're seeing? Attendance for baseball and football have dropped roughly the same as people don't go to games as much anymore.

But we've heard "baseball is dying" stories for several generations now.

Seems like that's a pretty big red flag. Especially if the game is now two generations behind the demographics.

All I know is baseball already has us TD posters watching, so it would be foolish to ask our opinion on how to fix the game. They need to start asking people who don't watch what they need to do.
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#40 Broker

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:09 PM

Kids like baseball just fine. Of course you have to live in a city with a team in order to watch games in person.

My son and his friends attend games every summer and have for 14 years. Last summer he had some kind of season ticket. He's 26 now and is coaching a 16U softball team so he doesn't have as much time to go watch the Twins. He also plays on a team sponsored by the Twins.

Anyways lots of kids would rather play than watch.

 

Also 73,000,000 butts in seats is not nonsense. That's 67,500,000 more butts than live in Minnesota.