Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: May Day is Coming for the Twins

minnesota twins trevor may lance lynn ervin santana
  • Please log in to reply
80 replies to this topic

#41 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 25,255 posts

Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:44 AM

May should be Andrew Miller for this team.
  • Vanimal46 likes this

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#42 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Minnesota Twins Whine Line Host

  • Members
  • 9,399 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:54 AM

May should be Andrew Miller for this team.


That would be a nice role for him... But was/is he that good to handle a role like that? His performance as a RP before wasn't "fireman" like.

#43 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 25,255 posts

Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:14 AM

That would be a nice role for him... But was/is he that good to handle a role like that? His performance as a RP before wasn't "fireman" like.


Only one way to find out. There is not currently room in the rotation, and they need a Miller type. Him or Slegers.

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#44 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 3,197 posts

Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:45 AM

I think you let May try to have success as a starter before trying him in the pen. Starters are far more valuable and it is a lot easier to go from being a starter to a reliever than vice versa during the season.

As for “no open spot”, maybe talk to Lance Lynn about that.

I keep seeing “he will normalize”. Based on what evidence? He’s not throwing strikes. It’s been a problem since day 1. Whatever adjustments he is trying to make or whatever fixes the coaching staff has tried obviously aren’t helping. At what point is it time to acknowledge that maybe this is who he is now?

Edited by yarnivek1972, 21 May 2018 - 10:48 AM.

  • DocBauer likes this

#45 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 25,255 posts

Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:58 AM

Slegers, Gonsalves, eventually Santana and Mejia can take Lynn's spot. And, Andrew Miller is worth more than a number four starter. Imo. What value does May provide this year, as a starter compared to those players? Imo, not more.
  • Oxtung, Dman and DocBauer like this

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#46 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Anyone got a smoke?

  • Twins Mods
  • 20,780 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 21 May 2018 - 12:31 PM

The Twins could use a power bullpen arm much more than an iffy starter.

 

Put him in the pen where he has always belonged. 

  • Mike Sixel likes this

I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#47 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 14,211 posts

Posted 21 May 2018 - 12:50 PM

 

The Twins could use a power bullpen arm much more than an iffy starter.

 

Put him in the pen where he has always belonged. 

 

What if he could be more than an iffy starter?I'm not sure I'm sold on that characterization of his potential.

 

(I know he's older, but he's also be foolishly yanked around)

  • pbrezeasap, Dantes929, DocBauer and 1 other like this

#48 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 25,255 posts

Posted 21 May 2018 - 12:55 PM

What if he could be more than an iffy starter? I'm not sure I'm sold on that characterization of his potential.

(I know he's older, but he's also be foolishly yanked around)


In context of this year, they need a really good two inning RP much more badly. The time of seven, even six, inning starts is at an end. Embrace the future!
  • TheLeviathan likes this

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#49 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 14,211 posts

Posted 21 May 2018 - 03:07 PM

 

In context of this year, they need a really good two inning RP much more badly. The time of seven, even six, inning starts is at an end. Embrace the future!

 

I guess I'm skeptical he'd be used that way.If he became a 3-4 times a week guy who gives us 1-3 innings of high leverage relief....well alright then.

 

I just have my doubts.Not necessarily because of Molitor or the FO or anything....I think I've just been beaten down on ever thinking the Twins will be ahead of the curve.

  • Mike Sixel and Platoon like this

#50 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 25,255 posts

Posted 21 May 2018 - 03:18 PM

I guess I'm skeptical he'd be used that way. If he became a 3-4 times a week guy who gives us 1-3 innings of high leverage relief....well alright then.

I just have my doubts. Not necessarily because of Molitor or the FO or anything....I think I've just been beaten down on ever thinking the Twins will be ahead of the curve.


I know the feeling. I remain hopeful

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#51 DocBauer

DocBauer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,113 posts

Posted 21 May 2018 - 07:52 PM

In talking with him, May has suggested that the back issues were something less related to relieving as they were to an actual injury he has since targeted and believes is behind him.


Now if that's true it changes the dynamics quite a bit. He could really stack the pen with Rodney (here for this season at least), Reed, Pressly and Hildenberger.

Only problem is, I still believe he could be a quality starter. And I know Santana will be back, and Gonsalves is close. Personally, I think Slegers has the ability to be at least a solid #5. Pineda next season? Mejia still has potential as well. It's a nice problem to have for sure.
  • Dantes929 likes this

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

--Lou Brown


#52 DocBauer

DocBauer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,113 posts

Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:02 PM

Slegers, Gonsalves, eventually Santana and Mejia can take Lynn's spot. And, Andrew Miller is worth more than a number four starter. Imo. What value does May provide this year, as a starter compared to those players? Imo, not more.


A great point! And let's not forget Pineda next season. Littell also shows potential. But Santana, even if brought back in 2019, is probably here that one more season. Gibson is under team control for one more season. Pines also for one more season. And in Reed, Curtiss, Benitez and maybe even Bard, there are some good BP arms at Rochester.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the pen, or that he couldn't excel there. Maybe he's even the next great arm there. I'm just a little hesitant to move him there when he could be a quality ML starter.

BTW, couldn't your same arguement be made for Mejia? I think he's got enough pure stuff to make an excellent RP if starting doesn't quite work out.

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

--Lou Brown


#53 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 25,255 posts

Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:37 PM

A great point! And let's not forget Pineda next season. Littell also shows potential. But Santana, even if brought back in 2019, is probably here that one more season. Gibson is under team control for one more season. Pines also for one more season. And in Reed, Curtiss, Benitez and maybe even Bard, there are some good BP arms at Rochester.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the pen, or that he couldn't excel there. Maybe he's even the next great arm there. I'm just a little hesitant to move him there when he could be a quality ML starter.

BTW, couldn't your same arguement be made for Mejia? I think he's got enough pure stuff to make an excellent RP if starting doesn't quite work out.


It could. But he's not healthy. So I'm not worried about him.

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#54 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 12,902 posts

Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:10 AM

May should be Andrew Miller for this team.


Andrew Miller isn't even Andrew Miller until the postseason. In the regular season, he has averaged right around 1 IP per appearance.

There are very, very few Miller types in the regular season, and only for short terms. Hader might be doing it for Milwaukee right now, but we will see how long it lasts.

The Twins might want such a performance, but I am highly skeptical any of their pitchers could provide it (except perhaps Berrios or Romero, who are obviously in other roles).
  • USAFChief likes this

#55 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 19,869 posts

Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:22 AM

It makes no sense to send May back to AAA at this point. Either he is good enough to make the rotation now, or he needs to move to the bullpen.

Why doesn't it make sense? Guys coming off TJS recovery often lack command over their breaking stuff. I don't think anyone is saying May gets stashed in Rochester for the season, maybe just a month or two until he has a feel for pitching again.

 

But if May has command over his breaking stuff right off the bat, it's a different situation.

  • Dantes929 likes this

#56 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 12,902 posts

Posted 22 May 2018 - 08:07 AM

Why doesn't it make sense? Guys coming off TJS recovery often lack command over their breaking stuff. I don't think anyone is saying May gets stashed in Rochester for the season, maybe just a month or two until he has a feel for pitching again.

But if May has command over his breaking stuff right off the bat, it's a different situation.


Well, you could say that *optioning* him right away doesn't make sense. Might as well use extended rehab for any immediate minor league work he might need. (Although saving his option year for his age 29 season might not make sense either, but we did wind up using options on Gibson at age 29, and Pressly at age 28.)
  • Brock Beauchamp likes this

#57 Oxtung

Oxtung

    If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence of tryin

  • Members
  • 1,972 posts

Posted 22 May 2018 - 03:59 PM

 

Why doesn't it make sense? Guys coming off TJS recovery often lack command over their breaking stuff. I don't think anyone is saying May gets stashed in Rochester for the season, maybe just a month or two until he has a feel for pitching again.

 

But if May has command over his breaking stuff right off the bat, it's a different situation.

If he isn't ready to pitch he shouldn't have come off the DL. If he is ready then there is no point in returning him to AAA. 

 

Let's walk your hypothetical through a bit. It's now July 20th, the first day after the All-Star break. There are 81 games left to play and the Twins now have Santana, Gibson, Berrios, Romero, Odorizzi and Lynn who have all spent significant time in MLB this season. At least one of them will be hurt/ineffective, perhaps two so let's say they need to call up one starting pitcher from AAA in addition to the aforementioned players.

 

Players with previous MLB experience:

Mejia

Slegers

Jorge

May

 

MiLB players with future rotation potential:

Gonsalves

Littell

Thorpe

 

Everybody's ranking of those players will be different and I think we can all agree that on July 20th May will have a better chance of being successful than some of those pitchers. However, how big a gap is there between May and say Gonsalves, Mejia or Slegers? Is that gap worth wasting two months of a potentially back of the bullpen option? Do you want to prevent a younger player from gaining experience that might help them in future years?


#58 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,369 posts

Posted 22 May 2018 - 04:26 PM

If he isn't ready to pitch he shouldn't have come off the DL. If he is ready then there is no point in returning him to AAA.

Let's walk your hypothetical through a bit. It's now July 20th, the first day after the All-Star break. There are 81 games left to play and the Twins now have Santana, Gibson, Berrios, Romero, Odorizzi and Lynn who have all spent significant time in MLB this season. At least one of them will be hurt/ineffective, perhaps two so let's say they need to call up one starting pitcher from AAA in addition to the aforementioned players.

Players with previous MLB experience:
Mejia
Slegers
Jorge
May

MiLB players with future rotation potential:
Gonsalves
Littell
Thorpe

Everybody's ranking of those players will be different and I think we can all agree that on July 20th May will have a better chance of being successful than some of those pitchers. However, how big a gap is there between May and say Gonsalves, Mejia or Slegers? Is that gap worth wasting two months of a potentially back of the bullpen option? Do you want to prevent a younger player from gaining experience that might help them in future years?


They can't keep him on the DL if he's healthy.
He could be fully recovered from the injury, from a medical position (which would make him ineligible to remain on the DL), but still not have good command of his pitches.

#59 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 19,869 posts

Posted 22 May 2018 - 05:17 PM

They can't keep him on the DL if he's healthy.
He could be fully recovered from the injury, from a medical position (which would make him ineligible to remain on the DL), but still not have good command of his pitches.

Exactly. We’ve seen it plenty of times with guys coming off TJS.

#60 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 3,197 posts

Posted 22 May 2018 - 05:19 PM

Neither Jorge or Mejia are currently healthy. Indeed, Jorge has yet to appear in a game in 2018 and it’s been almost a month for Mejia. Slegers kinda strikes me as smoke and mirrors. It plays in AAA, not sure it will at the MLB level. So far, it has not. He’s made 4 MLB appearances. The first was pretty good. The other 3 were mediocre to poor. The Twins won’t know how May will perform as a starter at the MLB level unless or until they let him start.

I think the pen will be okay as long as they don’t get overworked. More effective starting pitching would go a long way to helping that. Of the top 10 teams in MLB in IP from starting pitchers, 7 are within 2 games of a playoff spot. Washington is 3 games out in the East and Texas and Kansas City are obviously bottom feeders.

It’s not a perfect measure, obviously not all teams have played the same number of games. And the Twins are still below almost every team in games played. But they are still about 1/3 of an inning BELOW the AL avg start of 5.6 IP per start. If the Twins want to be a contender, I think they need to be ABOVE average in this category. Will May help do that? There’s only one way to find out.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: minnesota twins, trevor may, lance lynn, ervin santana