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Article: STL 7, MIN 5: Lynn with a Dud Again

lance lynn logan morrison eddie rosario
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#21 Danchat

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:33 PM

 

There is a reason that the Cards cut bait with both Lynn and Duke. The longer this goes on, the more painful it is going to be.

The reason the Cards cut bait with Lynn had nothing to do with thinking he would be terrible... they offered him the one year qualifying offer, so clearly they would have been OK with him there for about $17M. Lynn started asking for $20M+ on a deal and the Cards weren't interested in giving him that. (Heck, nobody was. Rightfully so.) They instead signed Miles Mikolas.

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#22 KirbyDome89

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:02 PM

 

Pretty glad they only signed Lynn for 1 year. Have to give the front office a lot of credit for that. 

Yes.

No. 


#23 bluechipper

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:33 PM

Logan Morrison not sliding into 2nd base on Buxton's would-be-hit was a huge mistake. Little things like that can turn games.

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#24 DocBauer

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:36 PM

I may be the only one, but I've no faith in Gonsalves pitching decent in the ML.


Sorry Halsey, but you may indeed be the only one.

I think we get obsessed with pure velocity sometimes, and Gonsalves sits in the low 90's. Nothing wrong with that, especially being LH. He won't be 24 until July, and is sitting at AAA, where maybe he should have been to begin the year. Have there been bumps in the road here and there and a few bad games? Yep. But wouldn't you expect that of any young pitcher? He has always seemingly made adjustments at each level and produced. Not a SO machine, and a few problems with walks here and there, nevertheless, he's never had a WHIP above 1.14. In 514 IP he has allowed 366 hits. And he is just shy of a 3-1 SO/BB ratio in his milb career.

What's not to like there?

I wouldn't expect him to come up and flash like Romero. And there will be some bad days, I'm sure. (Sooner or later, Romero will have his too). IMO, he has that "pitchability" quotient that is so important. I think he could end up being a quality #2, probably a very nice #3, and at worse a really good #4.
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#25 Shaitan

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:38 PM

Too bad they can't get their comp pick back if they cut him. I wonder if anyone would risk trading a 3rd rounder for Lynn as a reclamation project. The Twins would break even.

 

Also, they'd be a .500+ team without the games Lynn has started.

 

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#26 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:40 PM

Too bad they can't get their comp pick back if they cut him. I wonder if anyone would risk trading a 3rd rounder for Lynn as a reclamation project. The Twins would break even.

Also, they'd be a .500+ team without the games Lynn has started.


Draft picks can't be traded in mlb.
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#27 Rosterman

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 08:54 PM

Thank goodness Lynn IS a one-year contract. Something will have to give when May and Santana return. It better not be Romero or Berrios.

 

Lynn starts vs. equal starts by, say, Slegers or Mejia. Wonder if the Twins would be better off. Of course, wo won't ever know.

 

$14 million disappointment, combined with the $26 million taking up space in the bullpen. Sure, fine to have that 8th pitcher and a short bench, I guess.

 

We can't complain that the Twins don't spend money on free agents. It can be hit and miss. But they sure seem unlucky, in some ways...and shades of Joe Mays and Nick Blackburn on long-term contracts after one generous season.

 

 

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#28 IndianaTwin

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 10:09 PM

Why not use Hughes in long relief? How about, “because that’s not his role.” When Lynn got pulled, it wasn’t a 5-0 game where you say, “Here, Phil, pitch until your arm falls off.” It was a 3-2 game, and Molitor was probably looking for the most likely candidate to get him 2-3 scoreless innings. Based on the last 16 months, Rogers was probably a better shot than Hughes.

But sorry, I’m not ready to give up on Hughes.

He’s retired 10 of 12 in his four one-inning stints in the pen, and thrown the vast majority of his pitches for strikes after less than 60 percent for strikes as a starter. Two strikeouts and no walks. The first two games were the ninth inning in blowouts, but Monday was the first time he was tested in a game that was still in the balance. He succeeded, getting three outs on nine pitches with the team down just 1-0 in the ninth. He had a strikeout and two weakly hit balls.

It’s true that the two batters he hasn’t retired in relief have each hit homers. But they were each solo, because he hadn’t allowed any other runners. Overall, I think he was probably able to leave each of the four outings with a sense that he had taken at least a small step forward.

Those are the incremental steps toward getting the confidence of your manager. I think he’ll get a few more outings in low-leverage situations, but if he is able to continue progressing, I could see him moving into the mix.
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#29 Dantes929

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 11:22 PM

 

why not give up on him? Slegers or Gonsalves literally can't be worse than unwinnable as starters. Why not cut him and move on? He's shown no improvement all year. If not now, how many more starts like this until you would move on?

The reason to not give up on him is that he has a career track record of being better and he is striking out over 9/9 innings. I would give him quite a few more starts but if you read my post closely you would see that I would want those starts to be in the minors.  I would love for him and Gonsalves to switch places. What are you losing by having him try to right himself in the minors?  The guy had very nice career numbers, had good numbers last year and still has strikeout stuff.   Don't you think there is a possible upside if he just stops walking guys? Twins didn't give up on Crain or Liriano back in the day when they had control issues and were sent to the minors and were rewarded for it. If he can't earn his way back to the Twins so be it but what will we have lost by giving him the chance? Its in his best interest also.  If he does well in the minors and then comes up and does well for us it will be a big plus for him on the free agent market next year.Continuing to do what he is doing at the big league level now is doing neither him nor the Twins any favors.

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#30 howeda7

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 11:52 PM

I was fearful they would do anything to justify keeping Lynn in the rotation when Santana comes back, even if it meant sending Romero back or Berrios out to "find his curveball". But he's been so awful they will have no choice. Cut Hughes and put Lynn in the long role. It's probably only 2 more starts until Santana is back, so they'll probably give him those two. 


#31 bighat

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:55 AM

I'd much rather have Phil Hughes starting than Lance Lynn right now. And that's not necessarily a compliment for Phil Hughes.

 

I think this has to be the beginning of the end for the Lynn experiment. The Twins aren't a rebuilding team that can throw out a Mike Pelfrey every 5th day. The division is sitting there on a platter. Heck, Detroit might even take it if nobody else wants it. The Twins have Slegers, Gonsalves, Mejia all available to pitch and all are better than Lynn. Why not have give one of them an extended audition until Santana comes back? There's nothing to lose at this point because Lynn is a proven train wreck.

 

Big Erv's injury really had a terrible domino effect on this team.


#32 Original Whizzinator

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:51 AM

This is why you want rotation depth. At last one guy is either going to struggle or get hurt. A good team takes no prisoners. Send Lynn down next guy up

#33 Number3

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:15 AM

Like Ron Gardenhire, I know nothing about pitching. In Lynn's case he obviously can'r hit the broad side of a barn so why does he try to hit the barn door? He has a lot of movement on all of his pitches so just aim for the middle of the plate and let the ball take care of the rest. If he gets pounded so be it but nothing is worse than a major league pitcher who can't find the strike zone. And I mean nothing on this planet is worse than that.

On top of that he had the demeanor of someone who wished he was any place else other than where he was. Then the ground ball was just out of Morrison's reach with Dozier playing behind the bag in one of those crazy shifts. Stop reading spread sheets and just play ball PLEASE.

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#34 Puckett34

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:38 AM

 

I'm trying to find a recent Twins comp. for a starting pitcher who was been worse than Lynn thus far.

 

[possibly] Worse: Trevor May 2014 (7.88 ERA, 9 starts), Vance Worley 2013 (7.21 ERA, only 5.1 K/9 in 10 starts), 2012 Nick Blackburn (7.39 ERA, 3.8 K/9, 19 starts).

 

Better: Ricky Nolasco (all years), Yohan Pino, Pedro Hernandez, P. J. Walters, Andrew Albers, Sam Deduno, Scott Diamond (at his worst), Liam Hendriks, Cole De Vries

 

Yuck. The best comparison was rookie Trevor May, when he was getting strikeouts (8.7 K/9) but walking too much (4.3 BB/9) and giving too many hits. For a veteran comparison, Lynn is pitching similarly to Vance Worley, who was basically batting practice with few strikeouts.

 

Bleh. Maybe the Twins should stop going after NL starters... Nolasco, Worley, and Lynn have all been flops.

 

You are forgetting the unforgettable Marquis.

 

I was gonna say that you're both forgetting Livan Hernandez in the aforementioned list but his 5.48 ERA in 2008 wasn't thaaaaaaaaaat bad. Still pretty bad. Kevin Slowey was pretty bad in his final season in 2011 as well.  Sporting a 6.67 ERA

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#35 puckstopper1

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:50 AM

May is starting today in Rochester. 

 

Hopefully he or Erwin gets back soon so they (or one of the younger arms) can bump BOTH Lynn and Hughes off the rosters.  

 

Wishful thinking, I know...

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#36 ThejacKmp

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:07 AM

 

The reason to not give up on him is that he has a career track record of being better and he is striking out over 9/9 innings. I would give him quite a few more starts but if you read my post closely you would see that I would want those starts to be in the minors.  I would love for him and Gonsalves to switch places. What are you losing by having him try to right himself in the minors?  The guy had very nice career numbers, had good numbers last year and still has strikeout stuff.   Don't you think there is a possible upside if he just stops walking guys? Twins didn't give up on Crain or Liriano back in the day when they had control issues and were sent to the minors and were rewarded for it. If he can't earn his way back to the Twins so be it but what will we have lost by giving him the chance? Its in his best interest also.  If he does well in the minors and then comes up and does well for us it will be a big plus for him on the free agent market next year.Continuing to do what he is doing at the big league level now is doing neither him nor the Twins any favors.

 

Can you move him to the minors? He can't have any more options. He'd have to pretend to be injured and make rehab starts.

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#37 lukeduke1980

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:22 AM

Lynn's leash is getting shorter at 3 innings.I'm sure he'll keep starting but it'd be nice to have slegers or may there as long man after Lynn's starts get down to 1 2/3.

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#38 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:58 AM

The reason to not give up on him is that he has a career track record of being better and he is striking out over 9/9 innings. I would give him quite a few more starts but if you read my post closely you would see that I would want those starts to be in the minors. I would love for him and Gonsalves to switch places. What are you losing by having him try to right himself in the minors? The guy had very nice career numbers, had good numbers last year and still has strikeout stuff. Don't you think there is a possible upside if he just stops walking guys? Twins didn't give up on Crain or Liriano back in the day when they had control issues and were sent to the minors and were rewarded for it. If he can't earn his way back to the Twins so be it but what will we have lost by giving him the chance? Its in his best interest also. If he does well in the minors and then comes up and does well for us it will be a big plus for him on the free agent market next year. Continuing to do what he is doing at the big league level now is doing neither him nor the Twins any favors.


Of course I'd keep him if he agreed to go down. I don't know if that is realistic.

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#39 nicksaviking

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:59 AM

 

The reason to not give up on him is that he has a career track record of being better and he is striking out over 9/9 innings. I would give him quite a few more starts but if you read my post closely you would see that I would want those starts to be in the minors.  I would love for him and Gonsalves to switch places. What are you losing by having him try to right himself in the minors?  

 

You can't put Lynn in the minors, he's long out of options I'm sure.

 

His track record also shows a troubling over-reliance on fastballs and issues with conditioning. Those are issues that are as concerning as his control and likely part of the contributing factors for his lack of it.

 

He needs a full off-season with a club and he needs to dramatically change his approach and his repertoire. The Twins are just throwing away starts if they think what ails Lance Lynn can be fixed on the fly mid-season.

 

He should move to the pen, that's going to be his final destination anyway, just as everyone was saying from the day he was called up his rookie year.


#40 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:00 AM

Can you move him to the minors? He can't have any more options. He'd have to pretend to be injured and make rehab starts.


Or agree to go down.

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....




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