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Article: Twins Daily Roundtable: Romero's Rotation Spot

fernando romero ervin santana trevor may stephen gonsalves
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#41 David HK

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 07:08 AM

Give him Lynn's.

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#42 howieramone2

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:37 AM

 

Yeah, if demoting Romero is even considered, then the FO is still in building mode, and not in win mode.

This is silly. The handling of one player doesn't determine if a team is rebuilding or not. Romero still has to go thru the trials and tribulations most young starters have to go thru. No need to panic, these things have a way of working themselves out. Depth is a good thing.

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#43 howieramone2

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:45 AM

 

I'd really hate to straight up drop a 29 year old with a 3.4 career era but Lynn has been that bad. I don't see any other option.

He's not the only proven vet who missed a lot of ST having problems. At worst, we can get an arm and a leg for him at the trade deadline.

Edited by howieramone2, 17 May 2018 - 08:46 AM.

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#44 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:04 AM

The question was: “What should happen to Fernando Romero when Ervin Santana returns?

Well... The latest estimates are Mid-June for Ervin. This makes it an extremely easy can to kick down that road.

But if you want an answer? Based on what is going on right now on May 16:

It's pretty easy... 4 guys are locked and ain't going anywhere. Romero, Berrios, Odorizzi and Gibson are pitching well. So the choice comes down to Lynn and Santana and the way Lynn is pitching... it isn't much of a choice.

May hasn't pitched in awhile and he has an option so you can extend your look at him in the minors to gauge how helpful he might be later when we need him.

Santana is the guy that gets the last spot because Lynn is struggling hard. So... you drop Lynn into the pen and you cut loose Magill even though he would not deserve it. You would certainly be obligated to cut Magill with a sincere apology note and a strong letter of recommendation.

Everyone is focused on the rotation but I think the 40 Man Roster space is going to be the bigger issue. You can move an arm into the bullpen to relieve the rotation pressure but who do you cut to make room May and Santana.

Castro can go on the 60 day and this will allow May to be rostered. For Santana to be moved off the 60 and reinstated, someone has to go and there isn't an easy cut right now. Magill is the only guy you would consider setting free and that is real tough break for him because he is pitching like he wants to stay.

Now... If you want the question answered with predictions of what the landscape will look like a month from now: What do you do between Santana and Romero based on the predicted landscape? I predict that someone will be placed on the D.L and both Santana and Romero will be in the rotation. :)


Every year people worry any the forty man, and every year they leave a ton of guys unprotected. And that's in the off season when teams are looking to add players. I'm not worried.

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#45 Sconnie

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:12 AM

Pretty lame how many didn't answer the question by saying "Something will happen next two weeks to make the decision for you."

Even if that's true, answer the dang question. What do you do if they're all healthy? I only heard two good ideas:

1.) Lynn to the pen. He knows he has two weeks, if not he's pen bound.
2.) Six man rotation. This maybe makes you cut Hughes but that's something you might just have to do.

But overall, answer the question.

with the catching, third base and short stop situations as they are, Falvine can not afford to thin the bench any further.

Any rotation changes needs to be done at the expense of the bullpen.

Hughes has not been utilized in any way that relieves pressure from the pen and can’t be trusted to hold a lead.

If an injury doesn’t surface on the pitching staff, and the JP doesn’t give the OK to release Hughes, that bullpen will get stretched very thin.

#46 ThejacKmp

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:31 AM

 

with the catching, third base and short stop situations as they are, Falvine can not afford to thin the bench any further.

Any rotation changes needs to be done at the expense of the bullpen.

Hughes has not been utilized in any way that relieves pressure from the pen and can’t be trusted to hold a lead.

If an injury doesn’t surface on the pitching staff, and the JP doesn’t give the OK to release Hughes, that bullpen will get stretched very thin.

Perhaps it's a matter of argument. If you're arguing "release Hughes so we can get Buesnitz or Vargas up" it's maybe not as convincing "We need to release Hughes to get Santana into the mix."

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#47 Riverbrian

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:10 PM

 

Every year people worry any the forty man, and every year they leave a ton of guys unprotected. And that's in the off season when teams are looking to add players. I'm not worried.

 

I'm not worried about losing Magill.

 

I just have a thing against removing players who are actually performing at the MLB level from the 40 man. 

 

However... when you get to the point where that is necessary. You can file it under "Good Problem to Have.". 

 

 

 

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#48 iTwins

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:08 PM

 

I really like Tom's suggestion.Piggy back him with Santana.Yes, that would mean one less arm in the bullpen.BUT, the entire bullpen would get a day off every 5 days.Just may work.

 

Begin with Romero going 5-6 innings with Santana coming in to finish it.After a few of those games, flip so that Santana comes in and pitches 5-6 innings with Romero finishing.If Romero only pitches 3+ innings every 5th day for the last half of the season, his innings should be fine and his arm fresh for the playoffs.

 

This was exactly the point I came here to make. Tom's idea seems like a great one - it limits the innings on both arms, and saves the bullpen every fifth day (in theory). At the cost of a bullpen arm who hardly gets used (insert thinly veiled cough masking Phil Hughes' name)- this makes a lot of sense. 


#49 jun

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:11 PM

When Santana comes back, Hughes needs to be cut. When May comes back, either Rogers or Lynn needs to be demoted.


#50 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:26 PM

I'm not worried about losing Magill.

I just have a thing against removing players who are actually performing at the MLB level from the 40 man.

However... when you get to the point where that is necessary. You can file it under "Good Problem to Have.".


Why are we talking McGill? He's doing his job. There are other options.
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There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#51 spycake

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 03:17 PM

About the 40-man -- in addition to Castro going on the 60-day DL, I could easily see LaMarre and/or Cave getting DFA'd. Plus Petit, as soon as Sano is back. Duffey is pretty expendable at this point too.
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#52 yarnivek1972

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 03:39 PM

About the 40-man -- in addition to Castro going on the 60-day DL, I could easily see LaMarre and/or Cave getting DFA'd. Plus Petit, as soon as Sano is back. Duffey is pretty expendable at this point too.


I don’t know how wise it would be to DFA Petit. No idea if he is optionable, but it certainly makes good sense to have an injury replacement for the infield already on the 40 man, besides Gordon, who the FO obviously feels is not close.

#53 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:10 PM

May will be ready before Santana so he is the first guy to fit in. To me the best option is to bring up May to start and trade Lynn to an NL team for a A ball lottery ticket or fair to middling AA guy (prob isn't worth any more than that, if that). When Santana is ready, go with a 6 man rotation and 7 man BP if all the starters are pitching well, move a starter to the BP if there's a bad one. Lynn was a flyer, will not be here after this year and an NL team might give you something given his previous success.he Dodgers need starting pitching, have a good record with getting talented guys on track and have a pretty good system.Maybe a catcher...  


#54 howieramone2

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:18 PM

 

May will be ready before Santana so he is the first guy to fit in. To me the best option is to bring up May to start and trade Lynn to an NL team for a A ball lottery ticket or fair to middling AA guy (prob isn't worth any more than that, if that). When Santana is ready, go with a 6 man rotation and 7 man BP if all the starters are pitching well, move a starter to the BP if there's a bad one. Lynn was a flyer, will not be here after this year and an NL team might give you something given his previous success.he Dodgers need starting pitching, have a good record with getting talented guys on track and have a pretty good system.Maybe a catcher...  

If you add board favorites Alex Meyer's and Trevor May's victories together, and multiple them times 10, you have Lance Lynn. Note, Whatsamatta Yu and Cobb are off to slow starts also.

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#55 spycake

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:59 PM

I don’t know how wise it would be to DFA Petit. No idea if he is optionable, but it certainly makes good sense to have an injury replacement for the infield already on the 40 man, besides Gordon, who the FO obviously feels is not close.


Petit is not optionable, so it's a moot point.

#56 Danchat

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:02 PM

 

I don’t know how wise it would be to DFA Petit. No idea if he is optionable, but it certainly makes good sense to have an injury replacement for the infield already on the 40 man, besides Gordon, who the FO obviously feels is not close.

Petit just so happens to have one option remaining, so I imagine he gets optioned instead of DFA'd. For the short amount he's played, he's done a fine job.

 

 

About the 40-man -- in addition to Castro going on the 60-day DL, I could easily see LaMarre and/or Cave getting DFA'd. Plus Petit, as soon as Sano is back. Duffey is pretty expendable at this point too.

I'm just about done with Duffey, and I'd be OK if he was DFA'd. There are enough relievers at AAA that I'd rather see (Moya, Busenitz, Bard and Anderson are non-40 options).

 

[quote] Petit is not optionable, so it's a moot point. [quote]


 

Roster Resource is telling me that Petit still has one option left, what's your source?

 

Edited by Danchat, 17 May 2018 - 05:03 PM.


#57 spycake

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:43 PM

Petit just so happens to have one option remaining, so I imagine he gets optioned instead of DFA'd. For the short amount he's played, he's done a fine job.

Roster Resource is telling me that Petit still has one option left, what's your source?

Petit's transactions list at MLB.com has him optioned for 20+ days in each of 2015 and 2009. Of course, it really only goes back to 2009. It lists one transaction from March 2008 but ignores how he was also up and down with Oakland that year, as evidenced by his B-Ref minor league game logs and his Fox Sports transactions page, so he almost assuredly used an option that year too. Perhaps Roster Resource is only relying on the post 2008 data? He is 33 years old, who has played in 5 MLB seasons but accumulated only 2 years service time, it would be unusual for him to have an option remaining. Wouldn't be surprising to see a player that old "break" something like Roster Resource.

In any case, he has never been claimed on waivers either, and he's basically been a minor league free agent every year for the past 8 winters, so I suspect we could keep him in AAA even if we can't option him. Unless he elected free agency, which could be fairly risky for him to do midseason. Looks like he accepted his previous midseason outright assignment, back in 2015. Of course, he wasn't batting .438 back then either! :)

Edited by spycake, 17 May 2018 - 05:46 PM.


#58 Riverbrian

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:50 PM

 

Why are we talking McGill? He's doing his job. There are other options.

 

At least 39 other options.:)

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#59 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:52 PM

This is from an article written by Doctor of Physical Therapy, Lucas Seehafer, shortly after Santana's surgery in February:


He doesn't seem to concur your Santana-career-threatening concerns. Are other journalists leaning your guys' way, I haven't heard of any to this point.


No, that's why it's called an opinion. Which i made sure to make very clear I was making.
And I never claimed it would be career threatening. He'll come back healthy enough to pitch, I'm sure. I just think the performance level will be significantly worse than it was the last couple years.

#60 jokin

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:44 PM

 

No, that's why it's called an opinion. Which i made sure to make very clear I was making.
And I never claimed it would be career threatening. He'll come back healthy enough to pitch, I'm sure. I just think the performance level will be significantly worse than it was the last couple years.

 

Below is your initial response: 

 

 

 

Most likely outcome? Probably not. I believe he was giving his opinion.
I share that opinion.
Why? Surgery to the most important finger on his pitching hand. When the surgery was announced I said I didn't think he'd ever be the same pitcher again, as I think he'll struggle to find his feel for the slider.
As we're seeing with Lance Lynn (who was almost equally as bad last year, just extremely lucky- hence the lack of offers), some pitchers just aren't the same following major surgery.

 

I fear we're going down the path of messy semantic arguments here, but here we go...

 

1) You both agree that Santana will likely "struggle mightily." But then you said "probably not"?

2) Your subsequent comments suggest that he might never be the same pitcher.

3) Lynn's TJ surgery and aftermath is far more problematic than Santana's knuckle joint lock and pain.

4) Nevertheless, given that Santana is 35 and half years old and a 2019 Free Agent, one would logically follow your analysis and conclusions that Santana might forever "struggle mightily", possibly forced to sign minor league make-good deals going forward. I'd call that outcome career-threatening.

5) Certainly Lynn's FA status and 2018 performance stats which are at or near the bottom of all SPs in many categories are career-threatening, until he can prove otherwise. Not many opportunities for a command-free SP.

6) Perhaps we can all agree that Santana might struggle initially upon his return, the injury and long layoff causing some level of struggles for a month or more.

 

7) However, at this point, I prefer the very positive and independent medical opinion for likely eventual full recovery for Santana, with likely results in 2018 a shade or two below his career averages (ala Steamer/Depth Charts).

Edited by jokin, 17 May 2018 - 09:01 PM.

 

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