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Castro out for Season

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#101 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 11:21 PM

What a mess. The injury probably nagged at Castro and might explain his performance at the plate this year. Castro also had a terrible "catcher ERA" this year but his CS% was excellent.

I don't personally mind Garver and Wilson for the short term, but each has real question marks. Within the next 30-60 days I predict either that the Twins make an outside acquisition, or that the glaring need for an outside acquisition becomes apparent.
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#102 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:20 AM

 

By getting better all around, by adding MLB talent. Assuming Gordon is worse than Dozier next year, how are they better next year? If it is from their existing players, well, all those but Gordon and Gonsalves would still be here, except Dozier. And Sano and Buxton don't have much window left after this year. Realmuto aligns much better to their time here than Gordon does.

While I'm not against trading Gordon, you don't do it unless you're confident it will pay huge rewards.

 

Because if you trade Gonsalves and Gordon for a guy with two years remaining before free agency, you have two years, maybe three, to compete. Then the window slams shut in a hurry.

 

Gordon and Gonsalves can keep the window open a lot longer than two years because they're not the end of the road on the farm. The Twins also have guys like Thorpe, Enlow, Lewis, Rooker, et al following Gordon and Gonsalves.

 

Again, it's not wrong to trade Gordon and Gonsalves under the right circumstances, you just better be damned sure it's a good deal and/or you have enough firepower behind them to keep the window open.

 

I'm not worried about how Gordon/Gonsalves align with Buxton and Sano as much as I'm interested in seeing the Twins compete at a high level for the longest possible time. Ultimately, that will mean trading prospects and narrowing your window a bit but I don't care about young player overlap because that's generally a good thing.

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#103 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:30 AM

While I'm not against trading Gordon, you don't do it unless you're confident it will pay huge rewards.

Because if you trade Gonsalves and Gordon for a guy with two years remaining before free agency, you have two years, maybe three, to compete. Then the window slams shut in a hurry.

Gordon and Gonsalves can keep the window open a lot longer than two years because they're not the end of the road on the farm. The Twins also have guys like Thorpe, Enlow, Lewis, Rooker, et al following Gordon and Gonsalves.

Again, it's not wrong to trade Gordon and Gonsalves under the right circumstances, you just better be damned sure it's a good deal and/or you have enough firepower behind them to keep the window open.

I'm not worried about how Gordon/Gonsalves align with Buxton and Sano as much as I'm interested in seeing the Twins compete at a high level for the longest possible time. Ultimately, that will mean trading prospects and narrowing your window a bit but I don't care about young player overlap because that's generally a good thing.


In general, this makes sense. But, as we know, mid market teams have windows and cycles. We've learned over and over that they can't compete forever. Do we really think the window extends beyond Sano and Buxton and Dozier and Mauer and Rosario? That would be unusual for a mid market team, I think.

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#104 howieramone2

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:44 AM

 

In general, this makes sense. But, as we know, mid market teams have windows and cycles. We've learned over and over that they can't compete forever. Do we really think the window extends beyond Sano and Buxton and Dozier and Mauer and Rosario? That would be unusual for a mid market team, I think.

The 2017 draft was an aberration. If I'm not mistaken, only once before has a team with the 1-1 pick made the play-offs. Also, we haven't received anywhere near the credit we deserve for our performance in IFA for quite some time. This franchise could not possibly be more healthy. We may not be a contender forever, but it's sure going to seem like it to the rest of the Central.

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#105 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:57 AM

The 2017 draft was an aberration. If I'm not mistaken, only once before has a team with the 1-1 pick made the play-offs. Also, we haven't received anywhere near the credit we deserve for our performance in IFA for quite some time. This franchise could not possibly be more healthy. We may not be a contender forever, but it's sure going to seem like it to the rest of the Central.


I agree with that. They are in good shape right now.

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#106 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 10:24 AM

In general, this makes sense. But, as we know, mid market teams have windows and cycles. We've learned over and over that they can't compete forever. Do we really think the window extends beyond Sano and Buxton and Dozier and Mauer and Rosario? That would be unusual for a mid market team, I think.

I think it extends beyond those guys’ arb years because the Twins can and should be able to keep 2-3 of them and fill in the rest of the roster with the guys I mentioned earlier.

It won’t keep the window open forever because that’s impossible for a mid-market team. But it can extend a 2-3 year window to 4-5 years and that should be the goal.
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#107 yarnivek1972

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:19 AM

You keep typing we are trying to replace Sano with him.... No.... Castro and Garver are replaced. It's a huge step up from them. It's not about Sano and Buxton at all, other than trying to surround them with great players, unlike sitting on Mauer and morneau and not adding talent.


One problem: Sano and Buxton aren’t yet even close to Mauer and Morneau at their peak. And that’s my point. If you trade away your prospects for a guy 3 years from FA, you are in win now mode. And if Sano and Buxton both don’t become stars, you aren’t going to win now anyway.

#108 TheLeviathan

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:50 AM

 

I am certain every team would agree.

I am all in if Gordon, Gonsalves or Sano headline the trade. If that level would get the trade done, he would have been moved by now. The Marlins will get a better headliner in the trade.

 

It's also possible that teams are just not that interested in trading a lot of assets for catchers.They do tend to have more variance in production and durability.


#109 Vanimal46

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:29 PM

One problem: Sano and Buxton aren’t yet even close to Mauer and Morneau at their peak. And that’s my point. If you trade away your prospects for a guy 3 years from FA, you are in win now mode. And if Sano and Buxton both don’t become stars, you aren’t going to win now anyway.

The prospects aren't going to help move the needle much anyway if Sano and Buxton don't become stars. This contending cycle is entirely built on their success.

The next contending cycle in the 2020 decade is built on Lewis and others in A ball right now.

TLDR: if Buxton or Sano don't develop into stars we're all wasting our time.

Edited by Vanimal46, 17 May 2018 - 01:30 PM.

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#110 USAFChief

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:06 PM

 

The prospects aren't going to help move the needle much anyway if Sano and Buxton don't become stars. This contending cycle is entirely built on their success.

The next contending cycle in the 2020 decade is built on Lewis and others in A ball right now.

TLDR: if Buxton or Sano don't develop into stars we're all wasting our time.

So the club might as well proceed under the assumption they will, and attempt to surround them with the appropriate level of supporting pieces. 

 

If neither of those two are stars, hoarding middling prospects does no good anyway.

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#111 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:28 PM

So the club might as well proceed under the assumption they will, and attempt to surround them with the appropriate level of supporting pieces.

If neither of those two are stars, hoarding middling prospects does no good anyway.


Correct. There will never be a time of perfect information about the future, but if they don't act out of fear that Sano and Buxton aren't great, well, when would they?

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#112 jorgenswest

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:27 PM

Gordon is likely a 2B. Gonsalves is likely a fourth starter. The Marlins should seek prospects with better ceilings. One high ceiling guy is better than these two higher floor low ceiling guys. The return for Yelich was so much better and he isn’t a catcher.

Also I keep reading two years here. His earliest free agent is 2021 according to baseball reference. Isn’t that three years or do we round down to 2 to help fit our narrative? Maybe baseball reference is incorrect. Otherwise trading for him helps the Twins in 3 seasons.

Lewis or Romero or look elsewhere.

#113 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:26 PM

Gordon is likely a 2B. Gonsalves is likely a fourth starter. The Marlins should seek prospects with better ceilings. One high ceiling guy is better than these two higher floor low ceiling guys. The return for Yelich was so much better and he isn’t a catcher.

Also I keep reading two years here. His earliest free agent is 2021 according to baseball reference. Isn’t that three years or do we round down to 2 to help fit our narrative? Maybe baseball reference is incorrect. Otherwise trading for him helps the Twins in 3 seasons.

Lewis or Romero or look elsewhere.


So three plus years? Even better. One of the to catchers in the game, for three plus years? I give up anyone in the minors for that.

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#114 jorgenswest

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 08:56 PM

So three plus years? Even better. One of the to catchers in the game, for three plus years? I give up anyone in the minors for that.


Wouldn’t free agent 2021 give them the next three post seasons and not the +?

#115 Mike Sixel

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 09:10 PM

Wouldn’t free agent 2021 give them the next three post seasons and not the +?


Which is why everyone is typing two plus....

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#116 yarnivek1972

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 05:52 AM

I think it’s time to stop thinking about acquiring players to help in 2018.

That ship has sailed and hit an iceburg IMO.

If they want to try to get help for 2019 and beyond, fine. But this team doesn’t have the talent to contend with the elite teams of the league.

#117 mudcat14

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:43 AM

I'd love to get Realmuto, but would balk at the Marlins asking price.I believe the prudent move would be to target Wilson Ramos.As an impending FA, the asking price would be much lower.Badoo and Stewart or possibly even less would get it done.Tampa would appreciate the $5mil or so in salary relief.

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