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Melotakis Released

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#21 Seth Stohs

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 04:57 PM

 

For a few years we had the Melotakis, Chagois, Burdi, Reed dreams of a great bullpen in waiting - now we have none of them.What happened?It is disappointing to see the whole class of BP arms fail.It is also fuel for my personal belief that young arms should be up in the BP soon before they flame out.But Melatokis is an different case and since I do not know him I start to think that there is a personality trait or something off the field that keeps pushing him away.

 

Melotakis: Tommy John

Chargois: Tommy John (2 years), then missed most of 2017 (elbow)

Burdi: Tommy John

Reed: Oblique (2017), Shoulder (2018) though he is back now.

Zack Jones: A couple of shoulder surgeries, an aneurysm in his shoulder, etc. 

Luke Bard: shoulder injuries cost him 2+ years earlier in the year.

Alex Muren: Thoracic Outlet

 

Injuries are an unfortunate part of it. 

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#22 mikelink45

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 05:23 PM

 

It’s more fuel for MY personal belief that you never count on minor leaguers until they’re proven major leaguers.

I am almost never in favor of the “Don’t sign/trade for this or that veteran because we’ve got this or that minor leaguer coming” school of roster management.

Let them force someone off the roster. Don’t hold a spot open for them.

I am the opposite - put them in let them prove they do not belong.The FA you sign is sure to cost more than the value you receive. 

 


#23 mikelink45

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 05:24 PM

 

Melotakis: Tommy John

Chargois: Tommy John (2 years), then missed most of 2017 (elbow)

Burdi: Tommy John

Reed: Oblique (2017), Shoulder (2018) though he is back now.

Zack Jones: A couple of shoulder surgeries, an aneurysm in his shoulder, etc. 

Luke Bard: shoulder injuries cost him 2+ years earlier in the year.

Alex Muren: Thoracic Outlet

 

Injuries are an unfortunate part of it. 

Thanks Sett - you are my source for my minor league feelings.

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#24 h2oface

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 05:43 PM

 

His numbers in AAA looked like he would be a solid depth piece. I hope he doesnt go all Chargois on us an become a great reliever for someone else. What bothers me is the timing. Why now?

 

Chargois was going to be a fine reliever for us, too. It was all ready to be the year. The "pitching expert" front office truly don't seem like such pitching experts. I hope Melotakis does great. I hope they all succeed. We can't help the roster decisions that are made.

Edited by h2oface, 12 May 2018 - 05:50 PM.

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#25 nicksaviking

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 05:56 PM

I mean... he's way behind Rogers, Duke and Moya... Casey Crosby and Tyler Jay and Andrew Vasquez are ahead of him. Left-handed starters could end up in the bullpen. 
 
The reality is when he was taken off of the 40-man last year, he was topping out at like 88, 89. His secondary stuff didn't come back. He wasn't throwing any harder this spring.


He's still only throwing 89? I thought he regained his velocity after last year's DFA. If not, sadly I change my vote: time to say goodbye.

#26 beckmt

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 06:07 PM

 

I mean, that's a fun narrative, but there just can't be anything to it. They're not just going to drop really good players just because they were selected by Ryan or drafted by guys like Deron Johnson and Mike Radcliff (who are both still in the organization). 

Let's see, Chargois, Burdi, Bard(returned by a club in the same boat as the Twins(though he could have been claimed by kept on the 25 man roster of a bad club). These are all pitchers taken in the last year.Jury is still out, but this could still go very bad.


#27 mlhouse

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 07:27 PM

Look at it this way, this gives him a couple of years to be waived by a couple of teams, get to that 29 year old age level and then become another waiver wire pitching pickup by this squad.  

 

I get it, the odds of Melotakis making the major leagues was long and this is probably what needed to be done in the organization, and could perhaps be what is needed for his career.I also do not think that the Twins served Mason well in his professional baseball career. 

 

First, there was what was called a disaster of trying to convert him into a starter, although looking at the statistics it really wasn't that bad.  

Second, there was the Twins minor league promotions strategy that kept him in AA for parts of 2014, all of 2016, and part of 2017.Add in the arm injury that forced him to miss all of 2015, that meant he did not reach AAA level until he was 26 years old DESPITE having relatively good numbers in the minor leagues at all levels.(I have never seen Mlotakis pitch so I can only look at the stats).  

 

 

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#28 Seth Stohs

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 12:27 AM

 

Let's see, Chargois, Burdi, Bard(returned by a club in the same boat as the Twins(though he could have been claimed by kept on the 25 man roster of a bad club). These are all pitchers taken in the last year.Jury is still out, but this could still go very bad.

 

I mean, there are three guys they chose to not add to the 40-man roster (or take off of it), but they chose to add Hildenberger and Busenitz and Curtiss (and Gonsalves, Thorpe)... all of which were drafted by Deron Johnson. 

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#29 beckmt

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:06 AM

 

I mean, there are three guys they chose to not add to the 40-man roster (or take off of it), but they chose to add Hildenberger and Busenitz and Curtiss (and Gonsalves, Thorpe)... all of which were drafted by Deron Johnson. 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.Chargois and Bard both seem to be as good if not better than Curtiss.Burdi could be the lottery ticket.  

At the current time, do not see Curtiss having the necessary control of his slider to be effective at the major league level.Will keep an eye on this and could be wrong, but am worried about the trend.


#30 beckmt

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:10 AM

This sort of feels like some of my experiences where a new manager is hired over a department, and in about 6 months to a year you see some of their people coming from their old company, and people the new manager does not like leaving. This was the point I was making.  

It could be entirely baseball judgement, but the fact that Chargois is already on a major league roster, Burdi is on the DL, and Bard was just returned seems to tell me that other GM's have different valuations of this players.


#31 Mike Sixel

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:29 AM

I am the opposite - put them in let them prove they do not belong. The FA you sign is sure to cost more than the value you receive.


Why do we care about value? I care about wins, not cost per win.
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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#32 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:39 AM

This sort of feels like some of my experiences where a new manager is hired over a department, and in about 6 months to a year you see some of their people coming from their old company, and people the new manager does not like leaving. This was the point I was making.
It could be entirely baseball judgement, but the fact that Chargois is already on a major league roster, Burdi is on the DL, and Bard was just returned seems to tell me that other GM's have different valuations of this players.


Bard being returned shows that other GM's have the same valuation as ours did.
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#33 Rosterman

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:58 AM

But the question still remains: Why allow TOP prospects to depart, yet minor league free agents keep minor league roster spots. Most minor league free agents will be gone come year's end, and are also on the upside of age (26+ or older). Sure, someone like Melotakis will also be a free agent come season's end. But, would one rather take a major league look at a Melotakis than, say, a Magill (or Boshers) or Jaye. Yes, at some point the player numbers become an issue. You can only send them so far back for so long. But reading the lines: Nick Buss back from DL, Melotakis designated. Ramsey to disabled list. Granite back. You are putting more worth in, say, Nick Buss than Mason Melotakis today?

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#34 drivlikejehu

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 01:18 PM

Melotakis is a AAAA player. He has zero value.

If you ain't got no haters, you ain't poppin'.


#35 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 02:20 PM

But the question still remains: Why allow TOP prospects to depart, yet minor league free agents keep minor league roster spots. Most minor league free agents will be gone come year's end, and are also on the upside of age (26+ or older). Sure, someone like Melotakis will also be a free agent come season's end. But, would one rather take a major league look at a Melotakis than, say, a Magill (or Boshers) or Jaye. Yes, at some point the player numbers become an issue. You can only send them so far back for so long. But reading the lines: Nick Buss back from DL, Melotakis designated. Ramsey to disabled list. Granite back. You are putting more worth in, say, Nick Buss than Mason Melotakis today?


If they don't feel he's a MLB caliber pitcher, does it matter which milb depth players they keep?
I don't feel like Melotakis is any better than any of those other guys you mentioned.

#36 Seth Stohs

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 08:03 PM

 

But the question still remains: Why allow TOP prospects to depart,

 

I guess I'd ask what TOP prospects they've let depart. 

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#37 beckmt

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:11 AM

 

Bard being returned shows that other GM's have the same valuation as ours did.

All that says to me is that Bard is about equal to Curtiss, neither has enough command now to pitch a lot at the major league level.Whether either or both will ever be effective at the major league level is still not known.I would come closer to betting on Bard,


#38 Doctor Wu

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:58 AM

I'm still waiting for the return of Samuel Deduno. Really.


#39 Major Leauge Ready

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 08:23 AM

 

Why do we care about value? I care about wins, not cost per win.

 

You might want to rethink this position given their are other teams have nearly twice our revenue.The only way to post a playoff worthy record is to achieving a lower cost:win ration.Cost/win is an absolutely critical metric.Fans of teams in salary cap leagues are quite aware of this reality and the discussion around player value is very different.

Edited by Major Leauge Ready, 14 May 2018 - 08:23 AM.


#40 gocgo

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 09:05 AM

Change of subject, but has Hindenberger turned a corner and returned to last years form?I was really frustrated with him early on, but he seems to be better lately.

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