Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

From MinnCentric


Photo

Jason Vargas

  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#1 J-Dog Dungan

J-Dog Dungan

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 660 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:21 PM

He is on waivers. Any chance the Twins claim him? and if they do, what are the chances that they work out a trade with the Mariners?

#2 JP3700

JP3700

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 294 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:50 PM

Great post.. I was thinking the same thing earlier when I heard about it. The twins have first crack at him due to their record. I don't think it would hurt to at least put in the claim and see what happens. Find out what they want for him. Worst case they pull him off waivers. He has 1 year of team control after this season and if we can get him for cheap we might be able to make a Paul Maholm type trade next year at the deadline.

#3 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 8,680 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:15 AM

Great post.. I was thinking the same thing earlier when I heard about it. The twins have first crack at him due to their record. I don't think it would hurt to at least put in the claim and see what happens. Find out what they want for him. Worst case they pull him off waivers. He has 1 year of team control after this season and if we can get him for cheap we might be able to make a Paul Maholm type trade next year at the deadline.


Exactly spot on. I can't understand why there was any disagreement when discussing this option earlier this evening. The Twins are in the perfect position to pick up outright bargains relative to pursuing pitchers in the FA market (who of course, are accompanied by their over-promising agents). Given the demonstrated trade value for veterans in July and August, they could already have bolstered and/or set up 2 or 3 legitimate SPs for the 2013 staff with little lost except B- or lower prospects to teams who have been anxiously prioritizing the shedding of payroll anchors on their 2012 rosters. By not participating in this current buyer's market, they have set themselves up to be outbid in the offseason for anything other than Marquis-level retreads, never-weres or never-wills. (I'd definitely pass on Millwood, too old and Scott Boras as an agent)

As I've written previously, missing out on Maholm and others- with the chance of flipping or keeping them after a one-year deal was a huge overlook by the Twins this past season.

Edited by jokin, 28 August 2012 - 12:52 AM.


#4 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 8,680 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:36 AM

He is on waivers. Any chance the Twins claim him? and if they do, what are the chances that they work out a trade with the Mariners?


Glunn, myself and others discussed the Mariners as a trade partner last week during the Mariners sweep of the Twins. Gotta think you could get 3 superior arms ( a combination of a ML pitcher like Vargas and a prospect or two (How about James Paxton and Carter Capps/Stephen Pryor?) from the relatively pitching-rich Mariners in exchange for very little, the Mariners need bats, some combination involving Revere and/or Plouffe/Parmelee with another high-ceiling Class A prospect thrown in?

Edited by jokin, 28 August 2012 - 01:12 AM.


#5 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 10,840 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks

Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:19 AM

He is on waivers. Any chance the Twins claim him? and if they do, what are the chances that they work out a trade with the Mariners?


Glunn, myself and others discussed the Mariners as a trade partner last week during the Mariners sweep of the Twins. Gotta think you could get 3 superior arms ( a combination of a ML pitcher like Vargas and a prospect or two (How about James Paxton and Carter Capps/Stephen Pryor?) from the relatively pitching-rich Mariners in exchange for very little, the Mariners need bats, some combination involving Revere and/or Plouffe/Parmelee with another high-ceiling Class A prospect thrown in?


I don't see the Mariners giving up any of those top 3 arms. Hultzen, Walker and Paxton are the ticket back to contention.

Yes they will be looking for hitting but they will acquire it without giving up the arms or else they will be spinning their wheels.

Vargas... On the other hand... They will give him up for offense. No doubt.

#6 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,129 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:48 AM

Vargas isn't exactly a 'cheap' option. The soft-tosser is projected to make $8.1 million in 2013 according to MLB Trade Rumors. I'm not saying he's not worth it, and he would likely be the Twins top starter today, but I think I'd rather go the free agent way since it wouldn't require giving up anything in return.

#7 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    Old Geezer

  • Members
  • 1,573 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:48 AM

The easy part is we have the first claim and the Mariners are in town. Ryan just needs to walk into the Mariners box and make a deal before he even makes the claim. If he is not willing to give up something for him and the chance to kick start improving the rotation for next year I'm at a loss as to why. Nothing is free you give up something to get it, the cost of quality FA pitching is very high and his salary next year will fit in the Pavano 8m slot. DO something please!

#8 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,351 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:54 AM

Id give them Benson for him. Actually nevermind.
I'm not sure who I would give up, but it wouldn't be for anyone of significant value.

#9 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    Old Geezer

  • Members
  • 1,573 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 28 August 2012 - 08:54 AM

Vargas isn't exactly a 'cheap' option. The soft-tosser is projected to make $8.1 million in 2013 according to MLB Trade Rumors. I'm not saying he's not worth it, and he would likely be the Twins top starter today, but I think I'd rather go the free agent way since it wouldn't require giving up anything in return.


Which free agent pitchers would you put at the level of Vargas? I don't see a lot of solid starters on the market, a lot of so so guys but not a lot of quality.
How much do you expect the quality guys to cost and will they have to over pay for those guys to get them to sign with a last place team?
Just because we want a free agent doesn't mean they will want us. After all a bird in the hand.........

#10 Steve Penz

Steve Penz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 250 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:20 AM

Vargas isn't exactly a 'cheap' option. The soft-tosser is projected to make $8.1 million in 2013 according to MLB Trade Rumors. I'm not saying he's not worth it, and he would likely be the Twins top starter today, but I think I'd rather go the free agent way since it wouldn't require giving up anything in return.


Which free agent pitchers would you put at the level of Vargas? I don't see a lot of solid starters on the market, a lot of so so guys but not a lot of quality.
How much do you expect the quality guys to cost and will they have to over pay for those guys to get them to sign with a last place team?
Just because we want a free agent doesn't mean they will want us. After all a bird in the hand.........


It is hard not to agree with Mr. Smith. We have first crack. Take it. Please go after him. I think he has great stats for a pitcher on team that does not score runs.

#11 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,911 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

Vargas is a one-hit wonder. No thanks, I don't have interest in any free agents or trades for starters making that kind of money with stats that suspicious. This guy is time bomb waiting to explode in another uniform, he doesn't strike anyone out and gives up a ton of HR. His splits away from Safeco are alarming. 2 points higher ERA away and he's given up 23 HR on the road compared to 6 at home this year. Do the Twins really want a guy who is 3rd in the league in HR allowed when he spends half of his time at Safeco? If the Twins are going to be giving a pitcher $8 million next year, he better be able to top a 6.0 K/9. Vargas has disaster written all over him for who ever acquires this journyman having a career year.

#12 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 10,133 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:46 AM

Vargas is a one-hit wonder. No thanks, I don't have interest in any free agents or trades for starters making that kind of money with stats that suspicious. This guy is time bomb waiting to explode in another uniform, he doesn't strike anyone out and gives up a ton of HR. His splits away from Safeco are alarming. 2 points higher ERA away and he's given up 23 HR on the road compared to 6 at home this year. Do the Twins really want a guy who is 3rd in the league in HR allowed when he spends half of his time at Safeco? If the Twins are going to be giving a pitcher $8 million next year, he better be able to top a 6.0 K/9. Vargas has disaster written all over him for who ever acquires this journyman having a career year.


Agreed. The guy might have success at TF based on his success at Safeco but it's far from a given. He's having a good year with pretty mediocre (or bad) peripherals.

Vargas is the type of guy you pick up on the cheap after he posts a 4.50 ERA and then you cross your fingers, hoping for a rebound. He's not the guy you pick up after a 3.50 ERA because he's going to be overpaid and he's almost certainly going to regress.

#13 Steve Penz

Steve Penz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 250 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:04 AM

Vargas is a one-hit wonder. No thanks, I don't have interest in any free agents or trades for starters making that kind of money with stats that suspicious. This guy is time bomb waiting to explode in another uniform, he doesn't strike anyone out and gives up a ton of HR. His splits away from Safeco are alarming. 2 points higher ERA away and he's given up 23 HR on the road compared to 6 at home this year. Do the Twins really want a guy who is 3rd in the league in HR allowed when he spends half of his time at Safeco? If the Twins are going to be giving a pitcher $8 million next year, he better be able to top a 6.0 K/9. Vargas has disaster written all over him for who ever acquires this journyman having a career year.


Agreed. The guy might have success at TF based on his success at Safeco but it's far from a given. He's having a good year with pretty mediocre (or bad) peripherals.

Vargas is the type of guy you pick up on the cheap after he posts a 4.50 ERA and then you cross your fingers, hoping for a rebound. He's not the guy you pick up after a 3.50 ERA because he's going to be overpaid and he's almost certainly going to regress.


I can see what you are saying. What are we looking at having to give up/pay for him? Let me do some homework before getting to far ahead of myself.

My issue is that I have serious concerns about the twins getting any pitching this off season. Generally I am optimistic and here I remain very worried. Vargas is no savior and has questionable #s but the innings are good and the whip seems to be in the ballpark. If they get him for a reasonable deal then that is one decent piece and they can go out and continue looking for better in the off season. If they don't do something like this then what will they do?

#14 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    Old Geezer

  • Members
  • 1,573 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:05 AM

With our outstanding starting rotation it might be hard to find a spot for Vargas. You guys do understand we have the worst starting pitching in the majors?

#15 Docsilly

Docsilly

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:17 AM

He's 6-1 in his last 10 starts with a 2.54 ERA. Should reallly be a no-brainer. Take over Pavano's salary. Who cares about the number of HRs as long as he gets outs. Bert Blyleven gave up a lot of HRs too and he's in the HOF.

#16 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 10,133 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:29 AM

With our outstanding starting rotation it might be hard to find a spot for Vargas. You guys do understand we have the worst starting pitching in the majors?


It has less to do with the Twins rotation and everything to do with buying high on Vargas. You're paying for a guy who will almost certainly regress from his current numbers but the Mariners will almost certainly expect a return in line with his current performance. That's a bad baseball decision.

The Mariners would probably start the discussion with Parmelee. That's not a place the Twins should consider going at this point. Not for one year of a guy who is going to regress.

#17 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 10,133 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:35 AM

My issue is that I have serious concerns about the twins getting any pitching this off season. Generally I am optimistic and here I remain very worried. Vargas is no savior and has questionable #s but the innings are good and the whip seems to be in the ballpark. If they get him for a reasonable deal then that is one decent piece and they can go out and continue looking for better in the off season. If they don't do something like this then what will they do?


With Marcum, Liriano, Greinke, Jackson, Sanchez, and others hitting the FA market this winter, there is really no excuse for the Twins not to pick up one of those guys in the $12-15m per year range in a 3-5 year deal. They have the money and they have the need. History be damned, they need to pick up one of those guys.

#18 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    Old Geezer

  • Members
  • 1,573 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:24 AM


My issue is that I have serious concerns about the twins getting any pitching this off season. Generally I am optimistic and here I remain very worried. Vargas is no savior and has questionable #s but the innings are good and the whip seems to be in the ballpark. If they get him for a reasonable deal then that is one decent piece and they can go out and continue looking for better in the off season. If they don't do something like this then what will they do?


With Marcum, Liriano, Greinke, Jackson, Sanchez, and others hitting the FA market this winter, there is really no excuse for the Twins not to pick up one of those guys in the $12-15m per year range in a 3-5 year deal. They have the money and they have the need. History be damned, they need to pick up one of those guys.


There may not be a good excuse for not signing one of them but TR has already said that it's not the way he plans to go. Unless Ryan suddenly decides to change his MO and spend big in free agency for the first time how else do you fill out the rotation?

#19 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,911 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:32 AM

[quote name='Winston Smith'][quote name='Brock Beauchamp'][quote name='SRP']
My issue is that I have serious concerns about the twins getting any pitching this off season. Generally I am optimistic and here I remain very worried. Vargas is no savior and has questionable #s but the innings are good and the whip seems to be in the ballpark. If they get him for a reasonable deal then that is one decent piece and they can go out and continue looking for better in the off season. If they don't do something like this then what will they do?[/QUOTE]

With Marcum, Liriano, Greinke, Jackson, Sanchez, and others hitting the FA market this winter, there is really no excuse for the Twins not to pick up one of those guys in the $12-15m per year range in a 3-5 year deal. They have the money and they have the need. History be damned, they need to pick up one of those guys.[/QUOTE]

There may not be a good excuse for not signing one of them but TR has already said that it's not the way he plans to go. Unless Ryan suddenly decides to change his MO and spend big in free agency for the first time how else do you fill out the rotation?[/QUOTE]

If you're going to be making trades, it better be for younger and higher upside arms. Why waste more time with another nobody like Vargas AND give up players because of a percieved higher value? Ryan isn't going to pay for free agents just to spend money, but by the same token, he shouldn't be making trades just for the sake of making trades. If you get Vargas, his salary is going to force the club to look at him as a top of the rotation arm, yet every red flag this year, and everything that he has done previous to 2012 points to him being a #5. That's the same problem the Twins have faced the last two years. They have guys they expected to perform as a 1-2 starter and and up getting #5 production. It's crippling the team and it needs to stop.

#20 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 8,680 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:07 PM

With our outstanding starting rotation it might be hard to find a spot for Vargas. You guys do understand we have the worst starting pitching in the majors?


It has less to do with the Twins rotation and everything to do with buying high on Vargas. You're paying for a guy who will almost certainly regress from his current numbers but the Mariners will almost certainly expect a return in line with his current performance. That's a bad baseball decision.

The Mariners would probably start the discussion with Parmelee. That's not a place the Twins should consider going at this point. Not for one year of a guy who is going to regress.


If the Mariners are starting the discussion with Parmelee, it largely explains why they haven't been able to move him yet.