Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
The same great Twins Daily coverage, now for the Vikings.

The Store


Photo

Which scrap heap players should the Twins target in free agency?

  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

#1 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:17 AM

We have talked alot about the Twins taking a run at some of the top FA pitchers on the market, Greinke, Sanchez, Jackson etc. But this thread is to talk about some of the guys the Twins should try to bring in on small 1 or 2 year deals. I think the Twins will sign one big free agent, and then will have to supplement the team with some shrewd moves if they want to compete. Ideally they will get more "Burtons" then "Marquis" this time around.

Let's say for the sake of this thread all players mentioned will be paid less then 5 mil a year:

Scott Baker: One of the most obvious choices, has said all things being equal he would like to be back in Minnesota. Offer: 1 year 3 mil (+4 mil in IP incentives)

Jorge De La Rosa: Another guy coming off some injury issues. Never has had great numbers, but has the talent to be decent if it all comes together. Offer: ST Invite.

Erik Bedard: Had a nice start, but has been pretty brutal as of late. Worth a flier perhaps as a veteran #5. Offer: 1 year, 2 mil.

Freddy Garcia: Getting up their in age, but has actually been pretty effective as a SP in the AL East. Offer: 1 year, 3.5 mil

Carl Pavano: Days are probably numbered in Minnesota, but if he can come back healthy could be worth a ST invite. Offer: ST invite.

Matt Capps: (Ducks for cover) Yes, we all dislike Capps because we traded Ramos for him, then continued to over pay for him. But in his time with the Twins he actually hasn't been that bad. Offer: ST Invite or 1 year, 1.5 mil deal.

Joba Chamberlin: One of my favorites on this list: (Note would have to be non tendered by the Yankees, which is likely) Still throws hard, can be a nice reliever and needs a change of scenery. Offer: 1 year, 1.5 mil deal or 2 year 3 mil.

Jon Rauch: Still pitching well. Offer: 1 year 3 mil

Latroy Hawkins: Bring back the Hawk! Old as hell but still effective. Offer: 1 year 3 mil.



Stephen Drew: Should be had for a cheap 1 year deal as he will try to recoup some value. Perhaps a decent plan "B" they are sure Dozier is the answer at SS (or if they move Dozier to 2B) Offer: 1 year 3.5 mil

Marco Scutaro: Would be a bit redudant with Carroll on the roster. But if Carroll is moved, he could be a nice stop gap for the INF. Offer: 1 year 4 mil

Mark DeRosa: ;) Offer: Spring training invite

Torii Hunter: Has indicated he would want to come back to Minnesota. Again he could fill in for a year if one of Span/Willingham is traded. Offer: 1 year 5 mil



Super longshot:
Melky Cabera: If the Twins trade one of Span/Willingham there is a short term spot open in the OF. Cabrera would probably be a reach, BUT he most likely will have to sign a one year deal to prove he wasn't just an PED type player. Offer: 1 year 6 mil (incentives up to 7 mil)

Edited by SpiritofVodkaDave, 27 August 2012 - 09:22 AM.


#2 Top Gun

Top Gun

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:34 AM

Save your money and keep what you got.

#3 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:55 AM

Save your money and keep what you got.


If the Twins have a 95 mil budget for 2013 they should spend 95 mil. If they have a 90 mil budget they should spend 90 mil.

There is no point to not spend that money for 2013, and all these players would be 1 year type contracts, and at the end of the day it can be argued there is no such thing as a "bad" one year deal.

#4 jctwins

jctwins

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 208 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:03 AM

The Twins re-treads do nothing to change the tone of the organization and clubhouse. If you aren't going to do it with your coaching staff, you damn well better do it with the personnel on the field.

#5 Brad Swanson

Brad Swanson

    Señior Member

  • Members
  • 674 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:05 AM

I think signing a bunch of one-year deals is a great strategy. If the player hits and that makes the team better, great! If the player hits and the team is still bad, they have added a trade chip. If everything fails (a la Marquis), it is just a money hit and it is over in a year.

#6 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:12 AM

The Twins re-treads do nothing to change the tone of the organization and clubhouse. If you aren't going to do it with your coaching staff, you damn well better do it with the personnel on the field.

The only real "re-treads" I would prefer would be Baker and potentially Hunter.

I don't see any harm in giving Pavano a shot in spring training.

#7 greengoblinrulz

greengoblinrulz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,759 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:12 AM

Ive said in a couple threads that i think Mn will go after SP Jeremy Guthrie. Fits the Twins MO on pitchers.... will be cheap, pitched more than 200IP for several yrs, had a solid era in hitters haven of Balt, but throws hard (still 94mph ave)

#8 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:12 AM

I think signing a bunch of one-year deals is a great strategy. If the player hits and that makes the team better, great! If the player hits and the team is still bad, they have added a trade chip. If everything fails (a la Marquis), it is just a money hit and it is over in a year.

Yup, also Doumit was one of these type of players as well, and things have worked out great so far!

#9 joeboo_22

joeboo_22

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 173 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:13 AM

I don't have a problem with some pitching 1 year, incentive loaded contracts because they are little risk. But I hate making little impact signings that don't really help much and are just blocking others in the organization that may (or may not) have a future. Look at Jamey Carroll, why did the Twins sign him? He is a .240 hitter with decent defense (little range), and no power. Why not take that money and go spend it on a pticher somewhere.

#10 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:14 AM

Ive said in a couple threads that i think Mn will go after SP Jeremy Guthrie. Fits the Twins MO on pitchers.... will be cheap, pitched more than 200IP for several yrs, had a solid era in hitters haven of Balt, but throws hard (still 94mph ave)


I missed Guthrie, but you are right. I would include him on the list as well.

#11 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 4,734 posts
  • LocationLake Tahoe, Nevada

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:18 AM

[quote name='SpiritofVodkaDave'][quote name='Top Gun']there is no such thing as a "bad" one year deal.[/QUOTE]

Not as disastrous as being saddled with a bad player under an untradeable contract, I agree.

But as an "opportunity cost", the one year deals can still be bad if the thinking is that a few low-cost contracts (Marquis, Burroughs) are better than what you already have in the system or can be obtained on the waiver wire, rather than combining those funds to get somebody who's actually good. It wasn't particularly a problem for the 2012 Twins, and it's mostly second-guessing for me to point at the Marquis signing now; I'm just pointing out the downside when paying old talent at what seems like a bargain price.

#12 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:22 AM

I don't have a problem with some pitching 1 year, incentive loaded contracts because they are little risk. But I hate making little impact signings that don't really help much and are just blocking others in the organization that may (or may not) have a future. Look at Jamey Carroll, why did the Twins sign him? He is a .240 hitter with decent defense (little range), and no power. Why not take that money and go spend it on a pticher somewhere.

Say what you want about Carroll, but he has been by far the most consistent and best option the Twins have had at MI this season. You can certainly live with a .331 OBP out of your #9 hitter.

He isn't blocking anyone, Dozier was able to get plenty of starts and proved he wasn't ready yet.

#13 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:26 AM

Not as disastrous as being saddled with a bad player under an untradeable contract, I agree.

But as an "opportunity cost", the one year deals can still be bad if the thinking is that a few low-cost contracts (Marquis, Burroughs) are better than what you already have in the system or can be obtained on the waiver wire, rather than combining those funds to get somebody who's actually good. It wasn't particularly a problem for the 2012 Twins, and it's mostly second-guessing for me to point at the Marquis signing now; I'm just pointing out the downside when paying old talent at what seems like a bargain price.


I'm not advocating going out and signing 4 of those guys to be part of the rotation, but let's be honest. Heading into 2013 are there really a lot of players who would be blocked? Gibson/Hendriks/Diamond will all get plenty of shots to be in the rotation regardless of who/how many they sign. I guess it could be argued that a veteran pitcher could potentially block the DeVries, Walters or DeDunos of the team, but I would argue they aren't talented enough to actually be "blocked"

#14 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    Old Geezer

  • Members
  • 1,371 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:39 AM

Blanton, Correia, Guthrie and Saunders all fit our price range and would likely be better than what we have. McCarthy would be ok but seems hurt a lot. Marcum and Jackson are likely out of our price range. No Pavano and other 35+ types very rare they work out usually just wasting money. Baker I think has had his fill of the Twins medical team.
I don't really see any middle infielders that would help.
Two that could help the attitude would be Youkilis for 3b moving Plouffe to second and Hunter in right field. Of course that means Span + is traded for Shields or equal.

#15 CDog

CDog

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 856 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:59 AM

I've asked this question before, but don't think I ever found an answer, and part of your list made me wonder about it again. It seems like in situations where and option is declined by the team, the player "never" signs back with that team for a lesser amount. I can see Baker being a different circumstance given the injury, but Capps I thought also had an option for next year. Do players often/ever sign back with a team that doesn't pick up their option?

#16 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:26 AM

I've asked this question before, but don't think I ever found an answer, and part of your list made me wonder about it again. It seems like in situations where and option is declined by the team, the player "never" signs back with that team for a lesser amount. I can see Baker being a different circumstance given the injury, but Capps I thought also had an option for next year. Do players often/ever sign back with a team that doesn't pick up their option?


Yeah that is a good point about Capps. I'm sure it has happened in the past, the teams/players understand its a business. It's not like the Twins are being "cheap" by declining Capps option, it is their right to do so and hardly think he would argue with it.

Also with Capps, its not like there will be some huge market for him anyways, he seemed to like Minnesota enough and may be willing to stick around for a million bucks or so.

#17 powrwrap

powrwrap

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 425 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:31 AM

Ive said in a couple threads that i think Mn will go after SP Jeremy Guthrie. Fits the Twins MO on pitchers.... will be cheap, pitched more than 200IP for several yrs, had a solid era in hitters haven of Balt, but throws hard (still 94mph ave)


I missed Guthrie, but you are right. I would include him on the list as well.


I was going to mention Guthrie as well, but there's no way he'd make less than $5M, as per the OP's salary condition.
[FONT=comic sans ms][COLOR=#000000]"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand." [/COLOR][/FONT]

#18 powrwrap

powrwrap

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 425 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:39 AM

Marco Scutaro: Would be a bit redudant with Carroll on the roster. But if Carroll is moved, he could be a nice stop gap for the INF. Offer: 1 year 4 mil


Along these same lines, Jeff Keppinger, and he would come cheaper.
[FONT=comic sans ms][COLOR=#000000]"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand." [/COLOR][/FONT]

#19 Boom Boom

Boom Boom

    Hydraulic Choppers

  • Members
  • 1,109 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 12:55 PM

Scott Baker, Matt Capps, and Alexi Casilla.

#20 joeboo_22

joeboo_22

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 173 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 01:02 PM

I don't have a problem with some pitching 1 year, incentive loaded contracts because they are little risk. But I hate making little impact signings that don't really help much and are just blocking others in the organization that may (or may not) have a future. Look at Jamey Carroll, why did the Twins sign him? He is a .240 hitter with decent defense (little range), and no power. Why not take that money and go spend it on a pticher somewhere.

Say what you want about Carroll, but he has been by far the most consistent and best option the Twins have had at MI this season. You can certainly live with a .331 OBP out of your #9 hitter.

He isn't blocking anyone, Dozier was able to get plenty of starts and proved he wasn't ready yet.


And I get that, and he is doing his job. But he is the type of signing you make to take a close to winning the division to winning the division. Not the type of guy to anchor second or short on a last place team. He is costing what 6-7 million for 2 years of doing what he does on a last place team. I looked at Burroughs (less money) as the same type, I know there isn't much in the terms of the system but why not just put Casilla there and have him do that for the 1 million he makes a year, and see if he is worth 1 million next year. Save that money and get a bullpen arm, or put it towards a starter.

Its not that Carroll is good, or doing his job. Its that I'm going to go out on a limb and say his WAR isn't that great and there are others for less that could do the same job. At some point the Twins need to figure out who is going to be in the middle infield. Whether that is moving Mastronni or trying to convert Revere (will never happen though it should be looked at), or just putting Dozier, Florimon there and seeing what happens or whatever. Its the point that Carroll isn't in the future while at the same point there isn't a prospect at that position even remotely close in the system so its not like he is holding down the fort until someone arrives in 2 years.

#21 Rosterman

Rosterman

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 986 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:34 PM

Carroll was brought in for his work ethics and ability to play backup, if need be. I think the Twins were oping he would be a .280 hitter rather than .240. Sometimes it helps to have that veteran on the field or in the bullpen. Especially if they are personable. Yes, helps more if you are competitive team....but an extra coach that plays ball for real...valuable. The Twins biggest challenge in 2012 -- why would someone want to come here and play? That is the question we need to ask when choosing who the Twins should target. One-year deals, less money to play on a legit contender to prove yourself a viable property would be just as good as playing for the Twins. If I was an average pitcher, my record would look better if the team scored runs.
Joel Thingvall
www.thingvall.com
rosterman at www.twinscards.com

#22 B Richard

B Richard

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 514 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 03:49 PM

It would be fantastic to get Torii back. He's old, but he's playing well. I'd much enjoy his veteran leadership back. The only question I have about him is can the Twins make room for another OF? Span would have to be dealt, barring an injury.

Freddy Garcia is also intriguing. He's shown the ability to miss some bats this year. His ERA isn't pretty this year, however, and he hasn't thrown 160 innings since 2006. If he can be durable and post an ERA around 4, I'd be tickled pink. I see him signing for closer to 3M though rather than 3.5 or 4 this season.

I'd be excited to get Joba. He throws hard and could thrive in Minnesota. If he's healthy he could be a real valuable asset and perhaps serve as trade bait around the deadline. I'd imagine he would have quite a few suitors this offseason though. Some guys just can't do it in NY and I think a bounceback is anticipated by many.

Nice thread.

Edited by B Richard, 27 August 2012 - 03:54 PM.


#23 Top Gun

Top Gun

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:00 PM

Leave the scrap heap alone, get someone good or not at all. We have got alot of young players coming up they need to play.

#24 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 4,625 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:15 PM

To be clear, the twins will need to get at least one legit FA pitcher and likely trade someone for another one. I do think a scrap heap signing or two makes a ton of sense for the org though on top of this. Personally, both Baker and Bedard would be good targets, though I'll be honest in that I'm not sure I'd expect much of Baker until June. I wouldn't mind a 2 year deal with Stephen Drew either, unless there's some scouting info on him that says he's done. I assume Casilla is gone, so at least with Drew you have someone who has a much higher upside. You can let Carrol/Dozier battle it out for the other spot. If Dozier force it, then Carrol becomes a utility guy.

#25 jctwins

jctwins

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 208 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:39 PM

Name any former Twin that used to be halfway useful and this board would love to see him back in a Twins uniform, no matter how big of a waste of money and a roster spot. I hope the Pohlads aren't reading this.

#26 beckmt

beckmt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 827 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:57 PM

I was hoping the Twins would claim Lester and see if the Bosox were doing a salary dump. That being said I think Marcum would be a great pickup and pricewise might be less than Lester. Drew should be gettable and I also like Chamberlain(though I think his price would be high). Any other of the scrap pitchers would have more downside than upside. Hunter would just take up space needed for the young outfielders. Maybe Pavano if cheap enough with a spring training invite(he seems to like it here).

#27 jctwins

jctwins

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 208 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:12 PM

(he seems to like it here).


Careful, this is just the company line that they tow around here knowing that it may keep them off of Gardy's **** list. These guys don't like it any more here on a losing club than they would somewhere else, especially where they could either 1. win, or 2. make more money.

#28 striker_86

striker_86

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 177 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:24 AM

They need to bring in 1 big name starter, I dont care who it is. Just someone who can anchor this rotation. After that, sign another starting pitcher for a 1 year deal (even if its Baker for 5 million). That leaves spots 3-5 in the rotation for Diamond/Blackburn/Hendricks/Gibson/other minor leaguers.

#29 Willihammer

Willihammer

    ice cream correspondent

  • Members
  • 2,931 posts
  • LocationSaint Paul

Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:40 AM

Melky can stay in the NL west or out of baseball. Certainly not with the Twins. if I wanted to see a freak show I'd go to the fair, not TF.

#30 jianfu

jianfu

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:41 AM

Other long-shots:

Jon Lester
Pro: Might be relatively easy to acquire given his rough season and signed for only one more year.
Con: Signing on to a FA-to-be situation isn't their style.

Ervin Santana
Pro: Another guy with a rough season but with a track record of decency previously. Heading to FA.
Con: Signing on to a guy they'd probably consider an "enigma" isn't their style.

I suspect they'll work the scrap heap per usual, and then hope some guys step up. I suppose they might maybe consider moving a Sano or Hicks for a young SP. That's not their style, either, but given the circumstances they might consider it.