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Minor Leaguers and Minimum Wage

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#141 Mike Sixel

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 01:12 PM

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#142 Major Leauge Ready

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 06:35 AM

 

I find it interesting that minor league players do not have a union. The Major League Baseball Players Association represents Major League Players. Nobody has a dog in the fight. 

 

The situation isn't causing a shortage of supply so nobody is going to put their dog in the fight. 

 

In regards to the draft... I'd imagine Tony Clark is going to be primarily concerned with anything that provides incentive for tanking or anything that creates an imbalance and that's about it. The players union will want to avoid higher bonuses for draft picks because it might adjust major league pay downward. The owners are going to want to offer bonuses high enough to get the John Hancock so they may not be inclined to reallocate the bonus money. They just want the bonus slots so they can look Bryce Harper in the eye and say... "Sorry you are capped... we can't pay you 50 million" and we can't pay you 50 million in a couple of years either. 

 

The only people who will benefit from lower slot money to pay the farm hands a decent wage are the farm hands themselves and they don't have representation. 

 

Your solution makes sense... but sadly... it's going to take charity from a couple of Lions that are still hungry. 

 

Is it really that important to MLB teams to be able to dissuade players from going to college? I don’t know why MLB owners would care if the system pushed players outside the first 3-4 rounds to college. The teams are still on equal footing in terms of getting these players. The players just arrive later. If this is all about money, all of those years of expense go away. Why put yourself in a legal bind for the ability dissuade prospects outside the first 3 or 4 rounds from going to college?

Why as fans are we not concerned about the fact these young men forego an education for a very small chance to play MLB. We say we are concerned about these young men but I don’t hear any concern that most will fail and then have a limited education.

 

It does not change the ability to attract a Bryce Harper.He went #1 overall so going to college was not going to improve his draft position. What is his alternative? Let’s also keep in mind the top players signed for over $7M. 80% of that number is $5.6M.Even at $5M, we are talking about double what the average American makes in their entire life. This does not even consider the time value of money. I would think that’s ample incentive for virtually any HS draftee.

Why take the black eye if you are the MLB owners when you could just change the bonus system and rid yourself of the bad press permanently?


#143 Riverbrian

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 07:42 AM

 

Is it really that important to MLB teams to be able to dissuade players from going to college? I don’t know why MLB owners would care if the system pushed players outside the first 3-4 rounds to college. The teams are still on equal footing in terms of getting these players. The players just arrive later. If this is all about money, all of those years of expense go away. Why put yourself in a legal bind for the ability dissuade prospects outside the first 3 or 4 rounds from going to college?

Why as fans are we not concerned about the fact these young men forego an education for a very small chance to play MLB. We say we are concerned about these young men but I don’t hear any concern that most will fail and then have a limited education.

 

It does not change the ability to attract a Bryce Harper.He went #1 overall so going to college was not going to improve his draft position. What is his alternative? Let’s also keep in mind the top players signed for over $7M. 80% of that number is $5.6M.Even at $5M, we are talking about double what the average American makes in their entire life. This does not even consider the time value of money. I would think that’s ample incentive for virtually any HS draftee.

Why take the black eye if you are the MLB owners when you could just change the bonus system and rid yourself of the bad press permanently?

 

I think you clearly see it and your solution makes perfect sense but only until they make adjustments with the next CBA. The way things stand now, it is extremely important to the clubs to dissuade them.

 

If they don't sign the high school draftees... if they go to college. They can't re-enter the draft until after their junior season and when they do, the team has to compete again with the other 29 teams to get him. The club will most likely lose a player they want. If they convince them to sign... they get the player. If they don't... they won't. 

 

Someone like Seth Stohs may be able to explain it better but it is my understanding that the current system already pushes players who are going to college past the first 10 rounds and that's why sign-ability has become a huge factor.

 

Scouts are making the determination who will sign for X amount and who will be going to college. If the scout believes that the player will attend the University of Minnesota. The team won't draft him until after the 10th round. At that point the clubs feel they can take flyers on players in case they have a last minute change of heart. If somebody is drafted in the first 10 round and doesn't sign. The scout screwed up and will probably get yelled at for the wrong assessment.  

 

Sign-Ability plays a factor inside of each round. Royce Lewis wasn't the consensus #1 pick but he let it be known that he would sign for less than what was slotted for the 1st pick and that probably jumped him into the #1 slot because the Twins could take the savings and offer their 2nd or 3rd round pick more money than slotted which improves the quality of multiple picks in theory. If Brandon McKay for example would have said that he would have taken a lower than slot bonus... McKay may have been the guy the Twins took.  

 

It doesn't matter to Bryce Harper types as it stands right now because the owners have capped themselves. They can tell Bryce, "Sorry the most we can pay you is X and it's same amount in 3 years after you attend college". So Bryce will sign if he wants to start his career... but if there wasn't a cap... Bryce Harper can use college as leverage. Demanding 50 million to sign or he goes to school and re-enter the draft... at which point the Nationals won't get him unless they have the 1st pick overall again. The owners (and players) are able to use the cap to keep the bonuses from getting out of control on those special players because neither the players or owners want Bryce Harper from getting 50 million before he puts on a major league uniform. If the bonus wasn't slotted. Nobody could rule out the possibility that the Nationals wouldn't pay the 50 million to not lose someone special like that. 

 

Dropping Bryce Harper from 7 million to 5 million in bonus money to fix it is an easy solution in the next CBA but there is no incentive to do so apart from simple human kindness and that human kindness isn't necessary because players are willingly signing on the dotted line as things stand. There is simply no incentive. 

 

It's going to take the players banding together and refusing to play for below poverty levels OR a change in Federal Law and right now the politicians are busy collecting campaign donations from the MLB Commissior's office PAC so that ain't gonna happen. 

 

In order to pay the minor league players a better sum. The money is going to come from the owners and they don't want to or it's going to come from the players union and they don't want to. 

 

In my opinion... If a court somewhere forces it. The owners will probably eliminate a minor league club to make up the difference and the Twins won't have a team in Cedar Rapids anymore.

 

As for the Fans... They don't care either... I think the Fans like the idea of Royce Lewis staying in the Twins organization for as long we want him to. Fans would probably prefer if Free Agency was done away with so Brian Dozier could never leave until we cut him. 

 

A lot of people will sit around and feel sorry for the minor league players if they were aware of it but nobody has incentive to actually change it other than the minor league players and they just ain't strong enough as long as they are remain individual players and not a strength in numbers group. 

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#144 Mike Sixel

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:34 AM

https://www.theringe...a-scott-kingery

 

drop in the bucket, but they don't care about these humans.

 

The article doesn't even mention that minor league players need to pay for their equipment....

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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#145 laloesch

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:49 AM

 

https://www.twinciti...ens-operations/

 

We've had a lot of discussion about how the minor leaguers often do not earn a livable wage. Wouldn't it be great if a minimum wage law by Minnesota forces the issue? I wouldn't want and wouldn't expect the Saints to fold, but they're the marquee team in the AA, make the league pay these players more.

 

Get the ball rolling and hopefully the bad press baseball gets for dragging it's feet carries over to the affiliated leagues which are bankrolled by actual billionaires.

 

Like any other business they will just pass the costs along to the consumers.So those 11 or 12 dollar tickets are gonna jump significantly along with concessions.


#146 TheLeviathan

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 06:30 PM

 

Like any other business they will just pass the costs along to the consumers.So those 11 or 12 dollar tickets are gonna jump significantly along with concessions.

 

MLB is coming close to a breaking point on that front.Attendance is a problem in a growing number of markets, I'm not sure it's that easy.


#147 ashburyjohn

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 07:52 AM

Like any other business they will just pass the costs along to the consumers.

That may be how it goes in businesses that deal in necessities of life. I'm not sure entertainment business do (or can) operate along those lines whatsoever. Charge what the market will bear, bring expenses into line with that or else go under - that would seem to be the business model.

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#148 old nurse

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 08:21 AM

 

Like any other business they will just pass the costs along to the consumers.So those 11 or 12 dollar tickets are gonna jump significantly along with concessions.

Minor league team player salaries are paid for by the parent club. I couldn't find any 11-12 dollar tickets for Target field.Even the Oakland A's do not have that cheap of ticket.

 

Edited by old nurse, 23 April 2018 - 08:27 AM.

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#149 laloesch

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 08:41 AM

 

Minor league team player salaries are paid for by the parent club. I couldn't find any 11-12 dollar tickets for Target field.Even the Oakland A's do not have that cheap of ticket.

 

I think we are talking about minor league teams here.


#150 laloesch

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 08:55 AM

 

That may be how it goes in businesses that deal in necessities of life. I'm not sure entertainment business do (or can) operate along those lines whatsoever. Charge what the market will bear, bring expenses into line with that or else go under - that would seem to be the business model.

 

Entertainment is a business.How do they make money?By ticket sales, concessions and TV / cable deals.If the league or labor laws change and minor leaguers begin earning wages (whatever the dollar amount) the teams will incur more cost from this.The amount?who knows.But if it's a substantial hit they WILL pass along a good deal of that cost via ticket prices etc., i promise you.Any business even baseball teams still operate as a profitable business at a fundamental level.I am not saying whose right or whose wrong regarding the salary debate. 


#151 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:20 AM

Entertainment is a business. How do they make money? By ticket sales, concessions and TV / cable deals. If the league or labor laws change and minor leaguers begin earning wages (whatever the dollar amount) the teams will incur more cost from this. The amount? who knows. But if it's a substantial hit they WILL pass along a good deal of that cost via ticket prices etc., i promise you. Any business even baseball teams still operate as a profitable business at a fundamental level. I am not saying whose right or whose wrong regarding the salary debate.


I think Ash's point is that, if they aren't already charging the maximum that the market will bear, then they aren't very good at business.

Passing along cost increases really only work when you either have a monopoly, or are providing an essential service.
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#152 Mike Sixel

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:42 AM

 

Entertainment is a business.How do they make money?By ticket sales, concessions and TV / cable deals.If the league or labor laws change and minor leaguers begin earning wages (whatever the dollar amount) the teams will incur more cost from this.The amount?who knows.But if it's a substantial hit they WILL pass along a good deal of that cost via ticket prices etc., i promise you.Any business even baseball teams still operate as a profitable business at a fundamental level.I am not saying whose right or whose wrong regarding the salary debate. 

 

Actually, the amount has been posted here over and over......less than 5MM per year for each MLB team.....

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#153 laloesch

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 01:20 PM

 

Actually, the amount has been posted here over and over......less than 5MM per year for each MLB team.....

 

So so what?


#154 laloesch

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 01:24 PM

 

I think Ash's point is that, if they aren't already charging the maximum that the market will bear, then they aren't very good at business.

Passing along cost increases really only work when you either have a monopoly, or are providing an essential service.

 

We are talking minor league players and possible salaries here correct?why would they not increase minor league ticket prices to partially compensate?I mean they are pretty much the cheapest ticket in town and have more wiggle room to make up any increase. 

 

I'm doing the math in my head and i just don't see the minor league markets being maxed regarding ticket prices especially in Indianapolis, Charlotte,Nashville, Buffalo.All those minor league teams draw lots of fans season after season.

Edited by laloesch, 23 April 2018 - 01:25 PM.


#155 old nurse

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 02:59 PM

 

I think we are talking about minor league teams here.

Minor league salaries are paid for by the major league teams.That has been fairly well established in this thread. Whatever salary the players, and club staff get does not effect the ticket prices or concessions of minor league teams.So, if you are thinking ticket prices are going up from 10-11 dollars, that ship sailed quite a while ago at the major league level.

 

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#156 Mike Sixel

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:09 PM

 

So so what?

 

Your post said we didn't know the amount.....I gave it to you w/o comment.

 

But here's some commentary:

 

But if you think 5MM a year for a MLB matters, I don't agree. Not once they wash it out over the MLB and MilB pay.....

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#157 old nurse

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:17 PM

 

 

We are talking minor league players and possible salaries here correct?why would they not increase minor league ticket prices to partially compensate?I mean they are pretty much the cheapest ticket in town and have more wiggle room to make up any increase. 

 

I'm doing the math in my head and i just don't see the minor league markets being maxed regarding ticket prices especially in Indianapolis, Charlotte,Nashville, Buffalo.All those minor league teams draw lots of fans season after season.

Minor league teams do not pay for the salary of the players so whatever they make on attendance does not effect the payroll. Even then of the 190 minor league teams only 46 averaged more than 5000 a game. 14 over 7000. Using Mike's figure 5 million to each of the parent clubs having each minor league team making anther 750000 would be more than most teams could bear. That would especially hold true for the lower minors where the bulk of the players play and don't make any money.

 


#158 old nurse

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:36 PM

 

Your post said we didn't know the amount.....I gave it to you w/o comment.

 

But here's some commentary:

 

But if you think 5MM a year for a MLB matters, I don't agree. Not once they wash it out over the MLB and MilB pay.....

Well, 5 mil to the Twins is the difference between having Logan Morrison versus Kennys Vargas. Uhm, at this point, never mind.


#159 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 07:32 PM

We are talking minor league players and possible salaries here correct? why would they not increase minor league ticket prices to partially compensate? I mean they are pretty much the cheapest ticket in town and have more wiggle room to make up any increase.

I'm doing the math in my head and i just don't see the minor league markets being maxed regarding ticket prices especially in Indianapolis, Charlotte, Nashville, Buffalo. All those minor league teams draw lots of fans season after season.


One, the people charging for milb tickets aren't the same one paying milb salaries. At least not for affiliated teams, which I assume is what we are discussing.

Two, if they could charge more for tickets without losing attendance, and they decided not to, then they are awful at business, and are doomed regardless.
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#160 TheLeviathan

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 01:31 PM

This seems relevant to this thread.