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Article: Report From The Fort: Sorting Out The Lone Position Battle

tyler duffey tyler kinley gabriel moya alan busenitz
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#21 Nick Nelson

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 08:49 AM

 

So Aybar is a lock to be gone?
Granite has no chance?
And Hildy is a stone cold lock to make the 25 man roster?

As I said in the piece, surprises are always possible. But I don't see Aybar or Granite making the roster unless there's an injury.

 

My read on Hildenberger is that the Twins are (wisely) valuing 42 strong innings in the 2017 regular season over a half-dozen bad innings in spring training. Possibly if he can't put together a clean outing the rest of the way he'll be left out. But I'd say he's pretty close to a lock. 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing, Clutter.Add to that Rosario's health and Sano's potential suspension and there are still plenty of questions that need to be worked out over the next two weeks.

Those aren't position battles though. Those are contingencies. 

 

 

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#22 gbg

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 08:52 AM

I've seen it mentioned a couple of times that Kinley would have to clear waivers before a trade could be worked out. The rules aren't terribly clear on that, but seem to suggest that he would need to clear waivers only if being offered back to Miami, but not for a trade to keep him. Does anyone have a source that clarifies?

 

Since we know that teams can trade Rule 5 picks to another team without passing him through waivers, wouldn't it follow that they could make a trade with Miami without that hindrance?


#23 Vanimal46

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 09:00 AM

Those that want to trade for Kinley -- how much are you willing to give up? Keep in mind he is 27 years old, would be off our 40 man roster, and might be something like 12th on our RP depth chart (without even considering the SP who could be promoted as RP before him, or guys like Chargois we might find on waivers ourselves). And he'd be eligible for Rule 5 again next winter if not protected, although he can't become a minor league free agent until after 2019.

If the Marlins let him go for $50k, sure, but anything more than that, it might be best to just cut our losses if he's not good enough to make it this spring.

I remember similar calls to trade and keep Haley last year, so perhaps it's just a reflexive suggestion.


I'd give up very little. It was fine to take a chance on someone with triple digit velocity potential in ST. It's a different story bringing him north for the season.

You and others laid out the reality of Kinley. 27 years old, no track record of success above AA, most likely 12 on the depth chart.

I've seen enough Hooey/Tonkin types... He needs more than a 97 MPH fastball.
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#24 spycake

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 09:06 AM

I've seen it mentioned a couple of times that Kinley would have to clear waivers before a trade could be worked out. The rules aren't terribly clear on that, but seem to suggest that he would need to clear waivers only if being offered back to Miami, but not for a trade to keep him. Does anyone have a source that clarifies?

Since we know that teams can trade Rule 5 picks to another team without passing him through waivers, wouldn't it follow that they could make a trade with Miami without that hindrance?

Rule 5 picks can be traded, but they keep their Rule 5 restrictions. Just like how last year, the Angels actually selected Haley and traded him to us.

However, if you want to send Kinley to the minor leagues, or just return him to Miami, you need to remove the Rule 5 restrictions first. That means offering him up on waivers, with Rule 5 restrictions attached, if anyone else wants to claim him and keep him on their roster, like he was their own Rule 5 pick. If he clears waivers, Rule 5 restrictions are gone, but he has to be offered back to the Marlins for $50k. At that point we could work out a deal for him, just like any other minor league player.

Edited by spycake, 15 March 2018 - 09:13 AM.

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#25 spycake

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 09:11 AM

Worth noting, our RP depth was considered strong enough to leave Bard and Burdi unprotected (the latter an almost guaranteed Rule 5 selection), and to try sneaking Chargois through waivers. (And to drop Boshers.) In that context, I am not sure keeping Kinley matters all that much.
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#26 nicksaviking

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 09:22 AM

 

As I said in the piece, surprises are always possible. But I don't see Aybar or Granite making the roster unless there's an injury.

 

My read on Hildenberger is that the Twins are (wisely) valuing 42 strong innings in the 2017 regular season over a half-dozen bad innings in spring training. Possibly if he can't put together a clean outing the rest of the way he'll be left out. But I'd say he's pretty close to a lock. 

 

 

Also Molitor showed a lot of faith in Hildenberger giving him quite a few late inning looks last year. They might not want to give Molitor two guys who he is going to be inclined to hide.

 

Speaking of, I'm cheering for Kinley-Busenitz-Moya in that order, this bullpen is largely devoid of top end velocity. Also I'm cheering against Duffey (sorry Tyler, nothing personal) but I want it to fall upon Hughes to be the long man so as not to clog up the 5th rotation spot when it becomes a regular need and one of the young guys can have it.


#27 BJames

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 09:43 AM

The Vet's and rule 5 guys always head north.Only to be cut in May.It's just how it works.To me S.T. means nothing (very Little) except to one or two players, otherwise the Team is decided in Feb.Unless an injury happens - Rosario. 


#28 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 09:44 AM

I've defended the Kinley selection, but I wouldn't want them to trade to keep him.
The guy is 27 years old. If he's not ready now, more time in the minors is unlikely to help.
Just send him back if he's not ready.

#29 Kelly Vance

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 09:46 AM

 

A 27 year old who has yet to pitch well in AA probably isn't going to be claimed. He'll probably be ready for the majors when he's 29, and that's if he's ever ready.

we put two of those guys on the wire, JT and Burdi, and they were both claimed. 


#30 spycake

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 09:50 AM

we put two of those guys on the wire, JT and Burdi, and they were both claimed.


Burdi is actually only 25. And while Chargois is 27, he's also more advanced than Kinley, with success at AAA and even some in MLB.
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#31 golfboy1

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 10:09 AM

I think I'd prefer Kinley over Duffy.I think he is worth giving a chance. He throws an easy 99 & you can't teach that. Duffy doesn't impress me & the only quality he has isthe ability to pitch multiple innings ...plus they can still option him.

 

 I think Hildenberger will make it but I wouldn't count him as being a lock. He's looked really bad so far & maybe hitters are starting to catch up to his funky delivery.


#32 slash129

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 10:57 AM

 

I was thinking the same thing, Clutter.Add to that Rosario's health and Sano's potential suspension and there are still plenty of questions that need to be worked out over the next two weeks.

 

At least Rosario looks to be in the lineup at DH today .... Hopefully, that's a good sign


#33 Twodogs

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:01 PM

Let's get the show on the road!!! One of the first years that I can't wait until spring training is over.
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You cannot succeed without hate for your enemy


#34 dgwills

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 09:28 PM

I'm betting on Kirk Cousins. Time to start earning that big contract.




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