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Lynn, Morrison, Ryan, Falvey and Levine

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#41 howieramone2

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:03 PM

 

Challenge accepted... :)

 

By my own definitions, I decided that there have been 4 other mid-market teams that have recently gone through a rebuilding cycle: Oakland (2006-2012), Cleveland (2007-2013), Diamondbacks (2011-2017) and Milwaukee (2011-2017). By all of the metrics laid out below, I think it is fair to say that all four completed their rebuilds faster and with less overall losing than the Twins.

 

# of seasons between playoff births:
Twins - 6 (2010-2017)
A's - 5 (2006-2012)
Indians - 5 (2007-2013)
Diamondbacks - 5 (2011-2017)
Brewers - 5 (2011-2017) <- including because they won more games than the Twins last year even though they didn't make the playoffs.

 

total # of losing seasons between playoff births:
Twins - 5 (2011-2014,2016)
A's - 4 (2008-2009,2011)
Indians - 4 (2009-2012)
Diamondbacks - 3 (2014-2016)
Brewers - 3 (2013,2015-2016)

 

largest # of consecutive <.500 seasons
Twins - 4 (2011-2014)
A's - 3 (2007-2009)
Indians - 4 (2009-2012)
Diamondbacks - 3 (2014-2016)
Brewers - 2 (2015-2016)

 

total # of <70-win seasons
Twins - 4 (2011-2014)
A's - 0
Indians - 3 (2009-2010,2012)
Diamondbacks - 2 (2014,2016)
Brewers - 1 (2015)

My definition is a complete rebuild from tear down to the play-offs. If there is no tear down, you're comparing apples to oranges. 

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#42 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:07 PM

I don't know if Ryan would have gotten Lynn, LoMo, Odorizzi, Rodney, Duke, and Reed at the impressively low costs which Falvey and Levine got them...however Ido know of 29 other teams which didn't get them.


#43 howieramone2

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:08 PM

 

I was interested too so I started googling. Are you sure it was LaVelle?

I see this from Souhan: http://www.startribu...cess/434397623/

And this from Sid: http://www.startribu...ryan/444565183/

Can't find one from LaVelle and I don't see any words in the above where it specifically says Ryan was in charge of the IFA.

Feel free to contact LaVelle. He always leaves contact info. Once again, I'm not the only member who reads the sports page.


#44 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:10 PM

 

Ehh, I'd argue Rodney and Sanchez are scrap heap guys.

The season hasn't started yet...and where is Sanchez?


#45 USAFChief

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:25 PM

 

Feel free to contact LaVelle. He always leaves contact info. Once again, I'm not the only member who reads the sports page.

There are no rules about this, but common courtesy seems to demand if you're going to refer to an article as proof of your claim, you should be the one providing a link.  

 

 

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I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#46 howieramone2

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:33 PM

 

There are no rules about this, but common courtesy seems to demand if you're going to refer to an article as proof of your claim, you should be the one providing a link.  

I don't do any research or look up anything on this board, everything is off the top of my head. I save research etc., for the Gopher boards. I told them where to look, if they choose not to, no big deal.

Edited by howieramone2, 13 March 2018 - 03:38 PM.


#47 spycake

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:48 PM

LaVelle wrote the article in May or June. The crux of the article was all of our current stars are TR guys. He specifically mentioned Sano and Kepler. LaVelle always leaves contact information, so feel free to contact him. I know I'm not the only member of the board that reads the sports page.


They are "TR guys" in the sense they are not Falvey/Levine guys. TR was at the helm for much of their development. Doesn't mean TR was in charge of Twins IFA when they were signed in 2009, as you claimed -- a fact which, if true, would undoubtedly have been reported in more places than a single Lavelle Neal article in 2017.

I actually did a Google search and could not find your article. I did however find this Reusse piece from May 2017 which seems to directly contradict your claim:
http://m.startribune...ding/424686453/

Another one from Feb. 2016, "How the Twins Found Miguel Sano" -- no mention of TR, except in reference to their failed attempt to sign Miguel Cabrera years earlier:
http://m.startribune...sano/368707081/
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#48 Twins33

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:16 PM

I don't do any research or look up anything on this board, everything is off the top of my head. I save research etc., for the Gopher boards. I told them where to look, if they choose not to, no big deal.

The issue is that two of us have looked and the article doesn't appear to exist at all. I can google LaVelle and Terry Ryan and pull up articles involving the two all the way back to 2015, but one supposedly from 2017 can't be found is very odd.

Could I talk to LaVelle, sure, but you're the one making this claim. It's actually your job to prove it, not ours. That's just how it goes. Not attacking you by the way.

I read every free Twins article out there daily and always have. I don't remember anyone ever saying that. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, which is why I'd like to read the article if it does exist. Maybe I've just forgotten this piece of information.

Am I so desperate that I'm going to contact LaVelle for such a thing? No, and because of that and the fact that I and another person can't find it leads me to believe that it doesn't exist. That can easily be changed if you can provide a link to it. If you don't want to, it's not like you have to. I just won't believe it until that happens.

Edited by Twins33, 13 March 2018 - 04:41 PM.

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#49 snepp

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 06:42 PM

The onus should always on the person making an unsubstantiated / unsupported claim.

 

Making a proclamation of fact, then playing the "prove me wrong" card without providing any support oneself, is frankly, wrong.

 

If it's no big deal, then there shouldn't be any problems acquiescing when a supported counter point is provided.

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#50 Thrylos

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 06:58 PM

 

My definition is a complete rebuild from tear down to the play-offs. If there is no tear down, you're comparing apples to oranges. 

 

What happens though when you take a 2-time world champion and you lead it to the tear down and possible contraction?Why should Ryan take a mulligan for his failures in the 90s or even be praised for the "nearly good enoughs" in the 00s?

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