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Article: Twins Pitching For More Pitching

lance lynn thad levine yu darvish byron buxton joe mauer
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#21 DocBauer

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:29 AM

I would never say "don't get any more pitching". That would be absurd. But I do have to ask...if Santana were fully healthy, would this even be discussed at this time after the Odorizzi trade?

As Brock mentioned, I'm fine with Mejia learning on the job a bit as the #5 man. He's LH, has some solid stuff, and he's an investment in both the near and long term future of the team.

Probably comes down to Gibson and is the FO and staff confident he is the guy they saw the second half of 2017?
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#22 nicksaviking

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:37 AM

 

Probably comes down to Gibson and is the FO and staff confident he is the guy they saw the second half of 2017?

 

I agree, which makes the team's interest in Lynn a little puzzling. Gibson improved in the second half when he started using his 4 seamer more and really reduced his sinker usage.

 

Lynn did just the opposite and went super heavy on the sinker all season but late in the year in particular. Unlike Gibson, Lynn doesn't really have a change or curve to use as offspeed pitches either.

 

Does the front office think they'll be able to get Lynn to reduce his sinker? Do they think they can give him a usable offspeed pitch? 


#23 Thrylos

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:55 AM

There are no clear ace free agents right now.

 

in 2018 the Twins have under contract:

Berrios

Odorizzi

Santana
Gibson

May

Hughes

Mejia

Romero

Gonsalves

Littell

 

in 2018 the Twins have under contract:

Berrios

Odorizzi (*)

Santana (*)

Pineda (x)
Gibson

May

Hughes

Mejia

Romero

Gonsalves

Littell

 

Adding yet another to their horde of number 3+ pitchers will do no service to the Twins. If anything they need to subtract from their current options.They will be better off to try to swing a trade for a number one or two, using players on their current horde (in addition to other prospects), because that will be an addition they need, plus a reduction of movable assets that might just go away...

 

(*) Options

(x) under contract in 2018 but unlikely to play

Edited by Thrylos, 08 March 2018 - 11:55 AM.

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#24 howieramone2

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:55 AM

 

I agree, which makes the team's interest in Lynn a little puzzling. Gibson improved in the second half when he started using his 4 seamer more and really reduced his sinker usage.

 

Lynn did just the opposite and went super heavy on the sinker all season but late in the year in particular. Unlike Gibson, Lynn doesn't really have a change or curve to use as offspeed pitches either.

 

Does the front office think they'll be able to get Lynn to reduce his sinker? Do they think they can give him a usable offspeed pitch? 

I'm not puzzled at all. If we have the money, Lynn is obviously a better option than Mejia. You can never have too much pitching. 

 

To look ahead a bit, it appears we are positioning ourselves to be buyers and sellers at the trade deadline. We may well have an excess bullpen arm or so, and with Pineda coming aboard next season, we have starting pitching options. 

 

We made solid deals this off season, but don't overlook, we barely touched our deep farm system, and few teams going forward have our payroll flexibility.

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#25 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 12:30 PM

 

I would never say "don't get any more pitching". That would be absurd. But I do have to ask...if Santana were fully healthy, would this even be discussed at this time after the Odorizzi trade?

As Brock mentioned, I'm fine with Mejia learning on the job a bit as the #5 man. He's LH, has some solid stuff, and he's an investment in both the near and long term future of the team.

Probably comes down to Gibson and is the FO and staff confident he is the guy they saw the second half of 2017?

The reason I'm in favor of a two year Lynn/Cobb signing is that it gives you insurance on Santana. If he's bad, you decline his 2019 option and let Lynn/Cobb slide into his role next season. If he's good and you have confidence in either Pineda or one of the prospects, then you dish off Santana or Lynn/Cobb for a prospect.

 

At the money we're talking here, there just isn't much downside.

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#26 ashburyjohn

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 01:24 PM

What kind of position is a starting pitcher in if he misses all/most of spring training?

I seem to recall reading that the Players' Association had set up a mock spring training camp for unsigned players, so as to give them reasonably professional facilities to get into playing shape. It wouldn't be the same, but actual game play is arguably not a crucial aspect of spring training. I don't know whether Lynn is one who has taken part.

 

Lynn can't play hardball at this point. 

Then I don't think we, or anyone, will sign him. :) *groan*

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#27 rdehring

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 01:35 PM

 

I seem to recall reading that the Players' Association had set up a mock spring training camp for unsigned players, so as to give them reasonably professional facilities to get into playing shape. It wouldn't be the same, but actual game play is arguably not a crucial aspect of spring training. I don't know whether Lynn is one who has taken part.

 

Then I don't think we, or anyone, will sign him. :) *groan*

Read in today's paper that they just closed the camp.Didn't give a reason why.


#28 nicksaviking

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 02:04 PM

 

I'm not puzzled at all. If we have the money, Lynn is obviously a better option than Mejia. You can never have too much pitching. 

 

To look ahead a bit, it appears we are positioning ourselves to be buyers and sellers at the trade deadline. We may well have an excess bullpen arm or so, and with Pineda coming aboard next season, we have starting pitching options. 

 

We made solid deals this off season, but don't overlook, we barely touched our deep farm system, and few teams going forward have our payroll flexibility.

 

I don't think Lynn is obviously a better option than Mejia.

 

People might speculate that he is, but there's nothing ever obvious about signing mid-level free agent pitchers and if anyone knows that, it's the Twins. Lynn's repertoire is bad, his peripheral stats are bad and his splits are bad. He's basically good measured on Wins and ERA. I don't trust that moving to a new league and a new team and a new stadium.

 

Also, if this team is going to be a buyer mid-season, I'd rather save the money for then. They're not going to be able to find room for a Justin Verlander this July if they are already at their max payroll.

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#29 howieramone2

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 03:02 PM

 

I don't think Lynn is obviously a better option than Mejia.

 

People might speculate that he is, but there's nothing ever obvious about signing mid-level free agent pitchers and if anyone knows that, it's the Twins. Lynn's repertoire is bad, his peripheral stats are bad and his splits are bad. He's basically good measured on Wins and ERA. I don't trust that moving to a new league and a new team and a new stadium.

 

Also, if this team is going to be a buyer mid-season, I'd rather save the money for then. They're not going to be able to find room for a Justin Verlander this July if they are already at their max payroll.

I don't know how much more obvious it could be. He's a proven vet. Mejia isn't and may never be. If I'm not mistaken, he was the 5th highest rated starting pitcher in free agency based on projected WAR. I know you believe in those WAR things.

 

This board was screaming that the old regime didn't believe in advanced metrics. Now we get a group that clearly does, and we are going to pretend we know more? Also, every single AL team will take pitchers from the NL. 

Edited by howieramone2, 08 March 2018 - 03:05 PM.

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#30 spanman2

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 03:16 PM

 

I have faith in Berrios and Odorizzi, and that's it. I want to trust Mejia but he's got a lot to prove.

Wouldn't it be a HUGE addition to the staff if Mejia could pitch to his full potential.We see it at times but not enough of a sample size to trust him.Would be great to have that trusted lefty in the rotation.

I WAS TOLD I WOULD NEVER MAKE IT BECAUSE I AM TOO SHORT. WELL, I'M STILL TOO SHORT. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR HEIGHT IS. IT'S WHAT'S IN YOUR HEART.

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#31 nicksaviking

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 03:18 PM

 

I don't know how much more obvious it could be. He's a proven vet. Mejia isn't and may never be. If I'm not mistaken, he was the 5th highest rated starting pitcher in free agency based on projected WAR. I know you believe in those WAR things.

 

This board was screaming that the old regime didn't believe in advanced metrics. Now we get a group that clearly does, and we are going to pretend we know more? Also, every single AL team will take pitchers from the NL. 

 

If the new regime believed in Lance Lynn's WAR, they would have signed him long ago and for much more than 2 years $20M.

 

I'm not ripping on the front office, they've shown nothing to indicate they believe Lynn is anything more than a back of the rotation guy. I'm saying Lynn isn't nearly as good as the smoke and mirrors he trots out to the mound which are unlikely to follow him out of St. Louis.

 

Also, the only thing that "proven" vets prove is that they've been around awhile. There's a reason teams are going younger. Being a vet does not necessarily make a better player, they just necessarily make them older.


#32 spanman2

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 03:26 PM

 

Couple points:

1) While it may seem like a low ball offer, certainly nobody else has offered enough for him to sign as of yet.

2) Could the offer have been a casual inquiry to feel Lynn and his representation out rather than a "here, take this" offer?

3) At some point, Lynn, Cobb and Arietta may have to accept lowering their initial demands and expectations, or consider a 1 year deal.

I guess I'm just saying the FO is at least interested in another addition, but not sure we know enough about all the factors and conversations involved.

Couldn't agree more.I think the closer it gets to paychecks being deposited into accounts etc. the remaining pitchers will have to face the facts that teams are no longer going to hand out 5+ year deals like they are candy at a parade.It will be interesting to see what materializes the next 2 weeks or so.

I WAS TOLD I WOULD NEVER MAKE IT BECAUSE I AM TOO SHORT. WELL, I'M STILL TOO SHORT. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR HEIGHT IS. IT'S WHAT'S IN YOUR HEART.

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#33 Brandon

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 04:54 PM

I think a good bet on yourself contract would be nice. 2 year 25 million contract with 3-4 million incentives per season with an option third season with 10 milliin base that goes up with innings pitched and becomes guarenteed at 185 or so.

Having 5 #3 starters in the rotation is a great idea.

#34 spycake

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 05:01 PM

I think a good bet on yourself contract would be nice. 2 year 25 million contract with 3-4 million incentives per season with an option third season with 10 milliin base that goes up with innings pitched and becomes guarenteed at 185 or so.

Having 5 #3 starters in the rotation is a great idea.


Lynn is almost 31, if he's going to bet on himself, it would be a 1 year deal. (Or include an opt out after 1 year.)
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#35 cmoss84

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 05:20 PM

 

I don't think Lynn is obviously a better option than Mejia.

 

People might speculate that he is, but there's nothing ever obvious about signing mid-level free agent pitchers and if anyone knows that, it's the Twins. Lynn's repertoire is bad, his peripheral stats are bad and his splits are bad. He's basically good measured on Wins and ERA. I don't trust that moving to a new league and a new team and a new stadium.

 

Also, if this team is going to be a buyer mid-season, I'd rather save the money for then. They're not going to be able to find room for a Justin Verlander this July if they are already at their max payroll.

Mejia seems to struggle getting through 5 inn almost every single game he pitches in. He is a mid-4's ERA guy. ERA counts for something, especially with a really good defense behind you. 

 

If Lynn makes 30 starts and throws 180 inn with an ERA in the low 4's, doesn't that seem to be an improvement over Mejia? I am cheering for Mejia to take the next step-and he very well might. But Lynn is an improvement over Mejia, and might mean 2-3 more wins on the season...which is the difference in getting a wild card bid or not. 

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#36 jorgenswest

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 08:33 PM

At some point I think they wait into the season. The draft pick will go away. Injuries and poor pitching will create a better market.

#37 Kelly Vance

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 08:55 PM

The more I think about it, the more I want our Twins to let Gonsalves and Romero compete for the 4 and 5 spots.  Look at it this way. If 2019 is the real year we will expect to go deep into the playoffs, those guys need the year to get hit, get beat, and get better. OJT. Worked for Berrios. So why let the old guys block them? Let the kids play. May will be ready down the road and Santana will be fine in a month or two. 

 

As a spectator, I'd much rather watch the kids than watch Hughes or Sanchez get shelled.  


#38 Sconnie

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 04:05 PM

It’s official Lynn agrees to one year 12 mil with Twins
https://mobile.twitt...587636866117632

Edited by Sconnie, 10 March 2018 - 04:07 PM.

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#39 jokin

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 05:17 PM

 

Lynn is almost 31, if he's going to bet on himself, it would be a 1 year deal. (Or include an opt out after 1 year.)

 

 

Good call.

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#40 Sconnie

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 05:35 PM

Lynn is almost 31, if he's going to bet on himself, it would be a 1 year deal. (Or include an opt out after 1 year.)

had to check the time stamp to make sure the was a prediction



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