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When do the Twins cut bait with Phil Hughes?

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#41 Vanimal46

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 09:14 PM

If i went through 2 surgeries like that to try to make it back, I would continue to push into the season with a dl stint or minor league stint or bullpen...

I would want to be fully sure i cant come back. Phil should push till next season. If he cant make the team after next spring is the time to see if a negotiated buyout is possible or a release.

Phil does seem like the type to do a settlememt but again not this year.


Nicksaviking brings up a good point though. Can you just stash someone on the 60 day DL without a reasonable cause of injury? I mean, he's pitching now and supposedly healthy.

#42 spycake

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 09:54 PM

Nicksaviking brings up a good point though. Can you just stash someone on the 60 day DL without a reasonable cause of injury? I mean, he's pitching now and supposedly healthy.


I think you can, IF the player is willing. Just about any underperforming pitcher could theoretically try "rest and rehab" for something, to justify it.

#43 Riverbrian

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 09:58 PM

You cut bait with Hughes when you are sure that he can't help the team at any point during the duration of his contract. 

 

 

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#44 Deduno Abides

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 10:04 PM

You cut bait with Hughes when you are sure that he can't help the team MORE THAN LONGIBAL SANCHEZ OR SOMEONE ELSE OFF THE STREET at any point during the duration of his contract.


ftfy
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#45 laloesch

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 06:59 AM

I just can't see the Twins cutting bait with Phil Hughes this season or next.He will be here through the conclusion of his deal.


#46 birdwatcher

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 08:06 AM

I don't get the thought that the FO is so misguided that they can't move on and call it a sunk cost if in fact he can't get hitters out. I don't buy the whole "he might be good for a few batters" thing in this case. If he stinks up the rotation, he stinks up the bullpen. Why would you do that to your team?

 

I'm very much rooting for this man.

Edited by birdwatcher, 05 March 2018 - 08:18 AM.

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#47 The Wise One

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 08:30 AM

 

I don't agree this is a quick hook. He hasn't been able to effectively get outs for 3 years...

Did you miss that he has been injured for the better part of 3 years?

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#48 Sconnie

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 07:24 PM

Did you miss that he has been injured for the better part of 3 years?

https://www.mayoclin...es/syc-20353988

It’s not clear that he’s not still injured. Things I’ve read all have varying levels of ambiguity. TOS is not like Tommy John where it’s easily diagnosed and the surgery is somewhat common.

In my mind, until he can prove that he can pitch, he can’t. It’s too bad it’s caused by injury, but results are important.

To be clear, Joe Mauer was one of the best catchers in the history of baseball for 5+ years and earned a long leash.

Hughes has had one good season, and a couple ok ones.

#49 The Wise One

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 10:57 AM

https://www.mayoclin...es/syc-20353988

It’s not clear that he’s not still injured. Things I’ve read all have varying levels of ambiguity. TOS is not like Tommy John where it’s easily diagnosed and the surgery is somewhat common.

In my mind, until he can prove that he can pitch, he can’t. It’s too bad it’s caused by injury, but results are important.

To be clear, Joe Mauer was one of the best catchers in the history of baseball for 5+ years and earned a long leash.

Hughes has had one good season, and a couple ok ones.


Results are important. As is understanding the results could be a result of the disease process. Long leash, short leash whatever, somehow people remain oblivious to injury has an effect on result. If there is not blood everywhere people do not seem get the concept that a player has health issues.
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#50 Vanimal46

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:33 AM

I don't get the thought that the FO is so misguided that they can't move on and call it a sunk cost if in fact he can't get hitters out. I don't buy the whole "he might be good for a few batters" thing in this case. If he stinks up the rotation, he stinks up the bullpen. Why would you do that to your team?

I'm very much rooting for this man.


Concur, bird. Except for very much rooting for him... Sorry. I admit he's the Danny Santana for me this year. I'm not going to be happy until he's totally out of the picture in this organization.

#51 Sconnie

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:57 AM

Results are important. As is understanding the results could be a result of the disease process. Long leash, short leash whatever, somehow people remain oblivious to injury has an effect on result. If there is not blood everywhere people do not seem get the concept that a player has health issues.

agreed, point being, not all injuries can be solved. How long do you wait, especially with an injury that has such an unclear diagnosis and path to recovery?

#52 The Wise One

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 12:09 PM

 

agreed, point being, not all injuries can be solved. How long do you wait, especially with an injury that has such an unclear diagnosis and path to recovery?

however long the contract goes for. That is why they call it a contract.


#53 Sconnie

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 12:28 PM

however long the contract goes for. That is why they call it a contract.

of course Hughes gets paid, at some point the roster spot becomes more valuable being filled by an effective player making MLB min than what you owe Hughes....

#54 The Wise One

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 01:20 PM

 

of course Hughes gets paid, at some point the roster spot becomes more valuable being filled by an effective player making MLB min than what you owe Hughes....

I would think the union would have something to say about waiving the wounded


#55 Battle ur tail off

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 02:09 PM

DFA as soon as possible. 


#56 spycake

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 02:24 PM

I would think the union would have something to say about waiving the wounded


You can release injured players, you just owe them any guarantees regardless.

https://www.thecubre...xport/html/3534

"Outright Release Waivers cannot be requested on a player while he is on the Bereavement List, Military List, Suspended List, Disqualified List, or Ineligible List."

Note the absence of disabled list.

You can't option an injured player to the minors, but of course that doesn't apply to this situation.

And Hughes isn't currently injured to that extent anyway. He's probably dealing with the effects of injury, some permanent, like virtually every other player.
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#57 ashburyjohn

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 02:41 PM

effects of injury, some permanent, like virtually every other player.

A point too infrequently recognized.

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#58 Thegrin

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:37 PM

This is baseball.  A player is not out after 2 strikes. Every year is a new year.  Mauer proved that.  This is baseball. Every throw is a fresh chance.  I rookie league pitcher can strike out a top hitter.  A pitcher can make a perfect pitch, inches off the plate, and the batter can still reach out and hit a home run. This is baseball and Hughes has been a superior pitcher. This is a new year and under new circumstance, the results can be different.  This is BASEBALL.

 

Also, Hughes has always been a control pitcher.  Control pitchers are better able to focus, than the average pitcher. They see their spot and hit their spot.  This implies that Hughes should be able to adjust to his current velocity, if his arm is sound.  Give him time and he can make a turnaround like Gibson did last year.

Who saw that coming ?? :D

Edited by Thegrin, 06 March 2018 - 03:39 PM.


#59 Brandon Warne

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:52 PM

 

While I agree that it's premature to discuss this, for the sake of discussion I'll toss out this prediction: at the end of Spring Training, Hughes negotiates a buyout that is favorable to the team, say $10M, relieving them of the need to cut him outright, and he retires.

 

Contracts can't be renegotiated. There's no reason for Hughes to do this. 

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#60 ashburyjohn

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 04:54 PM

Contracts can't be renegotiated. There's no reason for Hughes to do this. 

Perhaps things have changed since 2016. 150212.jpg

https://www.mlb.com/...ent/c-165936318

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