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Article: Minnesota and Mauer Facing Important 2018

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#21 DocBauer

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:37 PM

Mauer's defense! Darn phone!

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

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#22 Mike Sixel

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:41 PM

He was a great player. Now? If they can't afford to sign pitching, they can't afford to keep an ok first baseman.
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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#23 spanman2

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:51 PM

 

Kirby Puckett called...with his two world championships, his WS MVP, his 6 gold gloves, and his seven seasons with top-7 finishes in MVP voting...

 

He said he wished he had taken more walks.

Kirby was never WS MVP but I get the genesis of your points.Joe has been a very good player over the course of his career.Did he have some not so spectacular years by the high bar he set yes he did.Like Morneau it would have been nice to see how he would have played without suffering the concussion(s) throughout his career.

I WAS TOLD I WOULD NEVER MAKE IT BECAUSE I AM TOO SHORT. WELL, I'M STILL TOO SHORT. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR HEIGHT IS. IT'S WHAT'S IN YOUR HEART.

KIRBY PUCKETT

#24 spanman2

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:52 PM

 

Kirby was never WS MVP but I get the genesis of your points.Joe has been a very good player over the course of his career.Did he have some not so spectacular years by the high bar he set pre-concussion yes he did.Like Morneau it would have been nice to see how he would have played without suffering the concussion(s) throughout his career.I was 10 back in '87.I loved Kirby, cried like a baby when he passed away.Kirby put the Twins and Minnesota sports on the map in the era when Sportscenter was really growing in popularity.Think 'Kirby Union Gap Puckett' copyright Chris Berman.One last point I think too many people get caught up in Mauer's contract.No one in their right mind would have turned down the money that was offered to him.The Twins generally are looking at ROI.Have they signed FA players recently that haven't panned out yes.Every team misses on those from time to time.But we all know they look at the bottom line more often than not.They clearly thought it was a wise investment at the time given the circumstances.WIN TWINS!

 

 

I WAS TOLD I WOULD NEVER MAKE IT BECAUSE I AM TOO SHORT. WELL, I'M STILL TOO SHORT. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR HEIGHT IS. IT'S WHAT'S IN YOUR HEART.

KIRBY PUCKETT

#25 spanman2

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:53 PM

I say that with a great Kirby quote on my posts. 

I WAS TOLD I WOULD NEVER MAKE IT BECAUSE I AM TOO SHORT. WELL, I'M STILL TOO SHORT. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR HEIGHT IS. IT'S WHAT'S IN YOUR HEART.

KIRBY PUCKETT

#26 highlander

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:17 PM

Joe has been a huge positive for the Twins over the years. Show him some respect and sign him up again. In my estimation his down years were the results of concussions. I could see Joe hit .310 with a .400 on base %. Win a Gold Glove. Hello Cooperstown! Not my money but, 3 years @ $50 million. LET'S GO JOE!
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#27 birddog

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 10:22 AM

Joe was a great Twin as a catcher, was very ordinary when concussions forced him to 1B, and last year was good to very good. Average and defense were excellent but run production for a 1B is not close to what is required. 

 

He averaged 62 RBI's the past 3 years to rank 28th in baseball among those with 1B eligibility. As a comparison let's use Danny Valencia, yes THAT Danny Valencia. Stats over the past three years:

 

Mauer: .278 BA, 9 HRs, 62 RBI's, 69 R's.

Valencia: .277 BA 17 HRs, 61 RBI's, 62 R's.

 

Would anyone think about giving Valencia $10 million+ per year? Gotta like and respect Joe Mauer. How could you not? But I hope Joe decides to hang up the cleats and sell cars or just enjoy his twins after this season. If he has a great season, he goes out on top and hopefully makes the HOF. But either way his $23 million will go a long way to getting us a top-notch starting pitcher.

 

Way too much talk about getting Darvish this offseason, only to wind up with Anibal Sanchez. No excuses about not enough money beginning next season.

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#28 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 11:33 AM

Joe was a great Twin as a catcher, was very ordinary when concussions forced him to 1B, and last year was good to very good. Average and defense were excellent but run production for a 1B is not close to what is required.

He averaged 62 RBI's the past 3 years to rank 28th in baseball among those with 1B eligibility. As a comparison let's use Danny Valencia, yes THAT Danny Valencia. Stats over the past three years:

Mauer: .278 BA, 9 HRs, 62 RBI's, 69 R's.
Valencia: .277 BA 17 HRs, 61 RBI's, 62 R's.

Would anyone think about giving Valencia $10 million+ per year? Gotta like and respect Joe Mauer. How could you not? But I hope Joe decides to hang up the cleats and sell cars or just enjoy his twins after this season. If he has a great season, he goes out on top and hopefully makes the HOF. But either way his $23 million will go a long way to getting us a top-notch starting pitcher.

Way too much talk about getting Darvish this offseason, only to wind up with Anibal Sanchez. No excuses about not enough money beginning next season.


RBI is an almost worthless stat.

Mauer has 7.1 bWAR over those three years to Valencia's 4.1. So, I'd expect Mauer to make roughly double the salary of Valencia next year, absent a major up or down 2018 from one of them.

#29 USAFChief

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 01:14 PM

RBI is an almost worthless stat.
Mauer has 7.1 bWAR over those three years to Valencia's 4.1. So, I'd expect Mauer to make roughly double the salary of Valencia next year, absent a major up or down 2018 from one of them.


Well, not all of us agree RBI are a worthless stat.

I would characterize WAR that way, though. Or nearly so.

I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#30 TheLeviathan

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 01:27 PM

If Rooker is ready after this year....give him the job.I appreciate Joe and think he's gotten a largely unfriendly reception to his production, but he's no longer providing enough from his position to justify continuing the relationship.

 

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#31 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 02:11 PM

Well, not all of us agree RBI are a worthless stat.

I would characterize WAR that way, though. Or nearly so.


I said almost. Obviously the goal is to score runs, so RBI are important. It's just not a great stat at showing an individual contribution.

And the discussion was regarding salary, that's mainly why I brought up WAR. You might not like it, but most FO's are using their own internal WAR to make roster and contract decisions.
I'd guess very few are still factoring a circumstantial stat like RBI much when it comes to those decisions.

Is a player more valuable if he hits a seeing eye single, when there just happens to be bases loaded, as opposed to a guy who hits a home run, when (through zero fault of his own) nobody happens to be on base?

#32 USAFChief

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 02:41 PM

I said almost. Obviously the goal is to score runs, so RBI are important. It's just not a great stat at showing an individual contribution.
And the discussion was regarding salary, that's mainly why I brought up WAR. You might not like it, but most FO's are using their own internal WAR to make roster and contract decisions.
I'd guess very few are still factoring a circumstantial stat like RBI much when it comes to those decisions.
Is a player more valuable if he hits a seeing eye single, when there just happens to be bases loaded, as opposed to a guy who hits a home run, when (through zero fault of his own) nobody happens to be on base?

Fair enough, good points.

I do concur front offices are likely using their own internal evaluation tools.

I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#33 Sconnie

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 02:57 PM

I generally like your story except for two phrases. Offensive ‘juggernaut’? No that’s Walt Disney imagination. An impressive single hitting machine, clutch hitter, great reader of pitches, yes. Juggernaut- not so much. ‘Living Legend’? No, again a long reach. He will be remembered for a long time, Minnesota boy and all. But he has done almost nothing in playoff ball and that just makes his story a great Saturday afternoon matinee.

come now, semantics about how to poetically describe one of the best hitting and fielding catchers to have ever played? Why is a little hyperbole regarding our guy such a bad thing?

He was unequivocally GREAT as a catcher. Brain injuries robbed him of some continued great years, but he’s rebounded.

It’s not his fault is owner and GM haven’t done anything to get that team over the hump of playoff contender to WS contender.

He was GREAT and is now good and agree it’ll be very interesting to see how this unfolds.

#34 Rosterman

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 03:08 PM

Depends on how the front office is positioning the Twins of the Future.

Hopefully we would be done with signings like Colon. Wait, maybe we will be done with signings like Rodney and Sanchez.

Anyways, where does he play, who is in the wings, what does he bring to the lineup and roster.

Two things:

Mauer WILL NOT want to be a parttime bench guy if he comes back anywhere in 2019.

Second, he will command a minimum of $8 and someone will offer 2-3 years at $10-12 million a year., if they have a need for him and his bat on their roster.

But it eventually comes down to Joe. Does he need the money? Does he want to play in a different city? Does he even want to continue with baseball in any way down the line?

Joel Thingvall
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rosterman at www.twinscards.com


#35 Thrylos

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 03:18 PM

Data:

 

In 2017 among first basemen with >400 PA in the majors, Mauer was:

 

17th in WAR,

21st in wOBA, and

21st in wRC+

 

in other words he was on the bottom half of starting first basemen in all these categories.

 

Minnesota boy and the ghost of the past and all of that, the Twins need to make a decision based on baseball, especially when they are competing.These numbers would not be good enough for any world series contender and should not be good enough for the Twins.If he is among the top 5-10 first basemen in the game this season, then they should think about extending him, otherwise they should not.

 

Every good thing has its end.

Edited by Thrylos, 17 February 2018 - 04:09 PM.

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#36 birddog

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 04:56 PM

However we use to measure it, I hope Joe has a great season. Personally I would prefer to see him be aggressive and swing away at hittable pitches with RISP, especially late in the game. Just saying that we can replace Joe's average stats next year--although maybe not his OBP--with pretty much any of our young 1B/OF types and save around $22 million to spend on the SP we desperately need.


#37 LeatherAntenna

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 08:28 PM

I expect to see him be aggressive and swing at hittable pitches with RISP because 2018 is another contract year for him. History thus dictates that we should see another 28 HR year out of him.

#38 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 08:35 PM

I expect to see him be aggressive and swing at hittable pitches with RISP because 2018 is another contract year for him. History thus dictates that we should see another 28 HR year out of him.


He's never had a contract year before.
2009 wasn't a contract year.
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#39 ewen21

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 09:40 AM

 

I agree with everything LeatherAntenna had to say on this. I’m a Mauer fan. I think he’s been judged too harshly, but “living legend” and “offensive juggernaut” are unnecessary hyperbole.

I’d love to see the Twins sign him to another year at $6-8M, but I bought tickets for the season finale today because I don’t expect we’ll see him in a Twins uniform past 2018.

Great career, but not legendary.

We can look back and say great career, but these last four seasons we have not seen anything resembling "great".We watched him become one of the league leaders in taking strikes.It is maddening to watch him stand there and take strikes the way he does.He seems to do it more with runners in scoring position.Very frustrating to watch, considering he is supposed to be a "juggernaut".We have watched him get crippled by an opposite field shift.Not sure why he has ignored the right field corner.I would like to see him scorch some balls down the right field line.Is that something he can no longer do? Odd.

 

I think any HOF aspirations are out the window at this point.His career took too much of a nosedive.He cannot be viewed as a catcher any longer.We can't line him up against Berra, Piazza, Carter, Bench, etc....those guys caught their who career.Mauer has spent too much time away from the position and can no longer have that chip in the HOF lottery.It is what it is.As much as we might want to see him in the HOF we don't dictate the process

 

Finally, our market is like 3% of the league.What we think here is all but irrelevant with regards to the HOF.I personally feel he would need to have a two or three year renaissance.The HOF is for guys who have a track record of durability.As an offensive player, you have to put up the numbers.Joe doesn't have the power numbers so he really needs a high hit total

 

That is all I have to say about Joe Mauer and the HOF.I really do not care about the Hall


#40 Sconnie

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 04:22 PM

Phil Miller has a really good article on this subject.

http://m.startribune...auer/474397383/



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