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Article: Trade Target: Collin McHugh (McWho?)

collin mchugh chris archer yu darvish alex cobb ervin santana
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#21 howieramone2

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:22 AM

Right now we are a better team than we have been in years. I could care less how we get rotation help. Plenty of time and plenty of starting pitching still available.

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#22 Thrylos

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:27 AM

 

yeah, no reason not to sign Lynn if they want a guy like this. Spending a prospect for what would likely be the same production as a FA isn't smart in my opinion

 

The only issue with that train of thought is that Lynn (& Cobb/Arietta) will cost a high draft pick, which is pretty much the same as losing a prospect...

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#23 Thrylos

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:37 AM

I like McHugh.I think that he will slot right in front of Santana and will be willing to send Houston someone with lower ceiling than him (Gonsalves, Littell) plus someone like Slegers to make it happen.This would be close to what the Twins got for Garcia last season, which should the baseline for this trade.I suspect that, based on that, the Astros might want more.I would not mind adding Gordon to Gonsalves to make this happen.

 

McHugh had 12.4 SwStr%, 22.9 K%, and 15.5 K-BB% last season.Berrios had 9.4 SwSte%, 22.6 K%, 14.8 K-BB%.Nobody else in the Twins' rotation came close to those numbers last season.The only other pitcher who may come close this season is May who approached those numbers when healthy but that was a couple seasons ago.

 

McHugh had shoulder/bicept issues last spring training, in addition to elbow.This piece, says that it might had been his mechanics and that he worked on that. 

 

At this point (and in the next 2 seasons) the Twins can use McHugh more than Gonsalves and Gordon, so they should do it.

 

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#24 nicksaviking

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:41 AM

 

Do we think they're going to surpass Houston's rotation? Cuz they aren't, even with Archer.

 

I just think that McHugh makes the Twins better. 

 

But he doesn't make them better where they actually need to improve. The Twins already have middle of the rotation arms. Their deficiency is the top of the rotation. If they have a hole they need to fill at shortstop it's not going to get filled by signing a third baseman even if he makes the team better.

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#25 nicksaviking

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:47 AM

 

You have to get to game 163 first. Who knows, Darvish might be hurt by then?? Rotation depth is always a concern, Lynn, Cobb, even Garcia makes the Twins better. Also it's possible that another good year and some progression Berrios becomes that guy who can take on Sale etc.... The Twins might already have that guy, but if they finish 72 - 90 then they will never know.

But I say keep the prospects, especially the ones that are close, like Gonsalves, Romero, etc.... Because they could be the next wave of top starters, or when they are 10 games over .500 in August and need to make that trade to put them over the top, that's when you play those chips. Until then get Lynn, Cobb, etc... Someone to help out, especially now that Santana is down for awhile.

 

I'd rather have a team that's capable of winning it all but could miss the post season than a team that will make the post season but isn't capable of winning it all.

 

There's no rule that the Twins have to go into the playoffs as the plucky, try-hard underdogs. That chip-chair-and-a-chance bit is so damn old and those long odds have yet to pay out for the Twins. This organization has to stop this business of hoping for the best. They need to PLAN for the best. Don't rely on luck and good fortune, make it yourself by stacking the odds in your favor.

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#26 howieramone2

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:48 AM

 

But he doesn't make them better where they actually need to improve. The Twins already have middle of the rotation arms. Their deficiency is the top of the rotation. If they have a hole they need to fill at shortstop it's not going to get filled by signing a third baseman even if he makes the team better.

You do not need a mythical ace. Give me a 5 man balanced rotation with additional depth anytime. Don't even pretend you can predict what will happen in a short series.

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#27 Tomj14

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:10 AM

 

I'd rather have a team that's capable of winning it all but could miss the post season than a team that will make the post season but isn't capable of winning it all.

 

Well if you don't make the post season you have Zero chance of winning. But if you mean you go for it and injuries happen or some terrible luck happens, then I am with you.

IMO the current state of the Twins is not capable of making the playoffs let alone winning it. Unless of course they are no major injuries or they have incredible luck. Which are two things I don't bet on.

 

I believe the best chance for the Twins competing the next two years and maybe three years has nothing to do with our prospects in A ball. Those prospects can be turned into things to help us (Twins) win for the next few years and if we get the right players and we still don't win, they should be players we can turn around and trade for A balls players in a year one or three.

Imagine we trade for Archer and he is really, really good but the rest of the team isn't, We should be able to turn around and trade him at the deadline either of the next two years for more than we gave up to get him.

Edited by Tomj14, 12 February 2018 - 11:26 AM.

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#28 Vanimal46

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:31 AM

But he doesn't make them better where they actually need to improve. The Twins already have middle of the rotation arms. Their deficiency is the top of the rotation. If they have a hole they need to fill at shortstop it's not going to get filled by signing a third baseman even if he makes the team better.


Right now there doesn't appear to be any plan at #4 or 5 in the rotation other than throwing numbers at the problem. So I would say they have holes throughout the rotation.

The Twins' priority should be acquiring any pitcher who projects to be better short term than Slegers, Jorge, Gonsalves, Hughes, etc. Which shouldn't be that hard to do.
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#29 spycake

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:57 AM

I see 13 healthy names on the Houston 40-man which would have to make the opening day roster or be cut. Tony Sipp would be an obvious cut candidate in that group. There's also a Rule 5 guy, but only a very long shot (Anthony Gose, trying to convert from OF to RP).Not a lot of guys in the next tier forcing their way up quite yet, though. Martes is pretty raw.

 

I don't see more than 13 position players that need rostering either.

 

So it shouldn't be too hard to start with 12 and include McHugh as the 6th starter, if they want. Keep in mind, while they have added Verlander and Cole, they lost Fiers, McCullers has yet to start more than 22 games in a season, Keuchel has missed time the last 2 seasons (and is a pending FA himself), and Peacock might be a better weapon out of the pen.


#30 yarnivek1972

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:06 PM

He's a starter, and a decent one at that, I think he'll cost more than expected.But I also don't think taking Houston's number six starter and making him the Twins number two starter is a great way to surpass Houston.


This. Exactly. Smart teams trying to contend aren’t likely to trade away a good starting pitcher before the season starts. Especially when they have no glaring deficiencies at the MLB level that trading McHugh would solve.

#31 RegularJoe62

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:11 PM

Meh. Trade Kepler and a package of lower level prospects for Archer, then use all the money we saved on Darvish to steal Martinez from the AL East. 
Not gonna happen, but fun to think about. 

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#32 nicksaviking

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:27 PM

 

You do not need a mythical ace. Give me a 5 man balanced rotation with additional depth anytime. Don't even pretend you can predict what will happen in a short series.

 

I can predict that if the WC game is Chris Sale or Corey Kluber or Justin Verlander or Luis Severino vs Colin McHugh, that the Twins are once again going to find themselves as gigantic underdogs.

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#33 nicksaviking

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:32 PM

 

Right now there doesn't appear to be any plan at #4 or 5 in the rotation other than throwing numbers at the problem. So I would say they have holes throughout the rotation.

The Twins' priority should be acquiring any pitcher who projects to be better short term than Slegers, Jorge, Gonsalves, Hughes, etc. Which shouldn't be that hard to do.

 

But if you get an actual #1 than that fixes the hole at the top and beefs up the bottom by pushing Santana/Berrios/Gibson/et al down.

 

I don't know why finding a #5 for the short term would be a priority over finding a #1 for any length of time.

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#34 Sam Morley

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:44 PM

A team in the Twins position should be looking to add starting pitching that will take them from being a playoff looser to a playoff winner. Darvish, Archer, Arrieta, maybe Cole are names that have been out there that would have that effect if added. Odirizzi, Cobb, Lynn, McHugh wouldn't. They will get you through the season, maybe help you make the playoffs and then not have what it takes when the competition ramps up against great teams.

 

The ways to acquire an impact starter are through free agency, trade, or development. We missed Darvish. It sounds like they aren't interested in Arrieta. There isn't anybody else in free agency unless you get lucky on a reclamation project. Getting Archer would be good. McHugh is a decent starting pitcher. He's not going to come for nothing. You're going to have to give up assets you like for a guy who isn't really going to make a difference in the postseason. 

 

If they can't put a rotation together through free agency and/or trade acquisition that can be great in the playoffs, then I'd rather see what the young guys can do, and I definitely don't want to lose any young guys to get veteran mediocrity. 

 

I suppose the likes of one or two of those 2nd tier guys could keep the Twins competitive through the all star break and put them in position to be buyers at the trade deadline where they could potentially add somebody who could make a difference in the playoffs. 

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#35 Vanimal46

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:14 PM

But if you get an actual #1 than that fixes the hole at the top and beefs up the bottom by pushing Santana/Berrios/Gibson/et al down.

I don't know why finding a #5 for the short term would be a priority over finding a #1 for any length of time.


Because it's more realistic than finding the magical #1 pitcher. Do you think Archer's getting traded anytime soon? I don't.

They can continue to search for a #1 pitcher and look for a more realistic target like McHugh.
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#36 Kelly Vance

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:51 PM

You need an ace who can throw that three hit shutout in game 1. Then you need a solid #2 that can hold serve.  A good #3 helps, but the days of winning a series with a #3 pitcher like Les Straker are long gone

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#37 Han Joelo

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:00 PM

Gosh, I don't know.  It DOES seem to me that the Twins are still in the phase of the program where they need to be finding their Keuchel/Arrieta/Kluber, rather than pining after the Lesters and Verlanders.


#38 Rosterman

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:07 PM

I'm just at a loss of whom the Twins would trade. For anyone.

 

Is there a market for Romero or Jorge, from the 40-man roster? If you do a trade to the Astros or Rays, you need to trade someone, anyone from the roster. Otherwise, you are throwing away another name to add someone.

 

Where do the Twins have offense depth. Right now, every bat on the 40-man could play in Target Field come April. The number of prospects redy to push any of the roster spots is...nill.

 

I just don't see the Twins having major league ready assets to trade. Especially for a talent that still ahs team control. And anyone on the Twins major league roster not named Buxton and probably Sano is far from being on the top of most team's wishlists.

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#39 ND-Fan

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:08 PM

I am not in favor of trading for Archer and trading with Tampa again like they did with Delmond Young I still can remember that trade. I truly believe that trade cost Minnesota chance to go to the world series. We traded a way quality short stop and at that time quality starter for bust offensive player. If we trade for Archer will be trading away I think longterm all star right fielder plus several other high quality prospects for a pitcher that only plays every 5 days. I look at the Twins were not that deep in farm system right now if you consider where were at with our current team. It appears were not going to sign Dozier so we will be bringing up Gordon before season is over and when Dozier is traded if were not in running for playoff spot. Likely Mauer is playing his last season here with MN with this regime so we will be looking at bringing somebody up or signing FA in near future. But getting back to Trading for ARcher what does it do to MN if we trade Kepler. Look we move from being one the best outfields in MLB to just average. The reason I say this is Buxton going play whole season without hurting himself and we need a center fielder. Kepler gives us immediate backup with above average range as well as being able to have Granite fill outfield position so were still above league average. This outfield is why we had improved pitching last year but if we go backwards there also our pitching goes backward with exception of one starter. We need a starter go sign FA or trade with Houston for Starter but don't trade away future of this team on one player. I don't want to be looking at Tampa playing with our players in world series again because of trade and I am afraid that's what going to happen.


#40 Tomj14

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:10 PM

 

Gosh, I don't know.  It DOES seem to me that the Twins are still in the phase of the program where they need to be finding their Keuchel/Arrieta/Kluber, rather than pining after the Lesters and Verlanders.

Not sure why you say that, the Twins have if I figured it out correctly, only 3 guys making more than the average for their potion (Dozier, Reed and Mauer) and all three are barely over that.

Seems like the perfect time to spend, because at some point Buxton, Rosario, Sano and maybe others will cost a fortune and the story will be are payroll is too high for FA's. IMO

Edited by Tomj14, 12 February 2018 - 02:31 PM.




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