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Twins make offer for Chris Archer

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#21 Nine of twelve

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:31 PM

Getting Archer would be better than signing Darvish!

I'd rather have Archer than Darvish, but I'd rather have paid money than players to make the acquisition.
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#22 jimmer

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:31 PM

 

I'd rather not if it costs Kepler. 

you'd balk at getting a bonafide ace if it meant losing Kepler?I'm a Kepler fan, but that's an easy yes.

Edited by jimmer, 11 February 2018 - 08:31 PM.

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#23 Mike Sixel

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:32 PM

This. I expect us to get Garcia and Tillman and we'll get sold on how much their veteran presence and leadership will help a young team.


Even though that means there aren't any young players on the roster.... How long do these guys need to be MLB players not to be young?

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#24 jimmer

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:32 PM

 

I'd rather have Archer than Darvish, but I'd rather have paid money than players to make the acquisition.

yeah, that's why I rephrased a couple posts after I wrote that.

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#25 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:33 PM

That’s terribly cynical of you! :)

It was Max Kepler's birthday recently. The reason I know this is because the Twins promoted it on Facebook. At this point let's keep him a while :)
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#26 old nurse

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:39 PM

 

You have to trade value to get value.

The return teams got for Miggy, Anibal Sanchez, Price, Cueto?The Royals got a great return for Greinke. Archer does not have near the track record at this point. 

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#27 Mike Sixel

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:41 PM

The return teams got for Miggy, Anibal Sanchez, Price, Cueto? The Royals got a great return for Greinke. Archer does not have near the track record at this point.


I think you are under estimating what it will take to get him.

But if you want great players, that are cheap, you have to give up real value.
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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#28 notoriousgod71

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:42 PM

If the Twins don't get Archer or overpay for him are we allowed to get the pitch forks out?

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#29 jimmer

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:42 PM

Archer has pitched over 200 innings in the last three years and just under 200 IP 4 seasons ago.

 

2013 fWAR: 3.2

2014 fWAR: 5.2

2016 fWAR: 3.2

2017 fWAR: 4.6

 

And he's done that facing the toughest offenses in baseball consistently.

 

We have anybody close to that?

Edited by jimmer, 11 February 2018 - 08:43 PM.

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#30 gunnarthor

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:42 PM

Kepler is cheaper, younger and has more years of control. Archer strikes guys out and is durable but that's about it. By bWAR, Kepler is better. fWAR, which relies on fip, likes Archer a lot more. Archer has been pitching in a very good pitchers park in front of a very good defense.

 

I think bWAR is probably a bit closer to the truth but our FO better have a pretty good understanding of them.

 

 

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#31 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:44 PM

Also, I'd feel a lot better about a move like this if it was in conjunction with spending some serious money on FA upgrades.By itself, I worry about how much it actually moves the needle.(And I like Archer a lot)

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#32 Mike Sixel

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:44 PM

Kepler is cheaper, younger and has more years of control. Archer strikes guys out and is durable but that's about it. By bWAR, Kepler is better. fWAR, which relies on fip, likes Archer a lot more. Archer has been pitching in a very good pitchers park in front of a very good defense.

I think bWAR is probably a bit closer to the truth but our FO better have a pretty good understanding of them.


Are you suggesting Kepler is enough alone? I will take that bet.
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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#33 jimmer

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:45 PM

 

Are you suggesting Kepler is enough alone? I will take that bet.

hahahahaha

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#34 Mike Sixel

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:45 PM

Also, I'd feel a lot better about a move like this if it was in conjunction with spending some serious money on FA upgrades. By itself, I worry about how much it actually moves the needle. (And I like Archer a lot)


Right, you have to sign an OF then
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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#35 TheLeviathan

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:46 PM

 

Right, you have to sign an OF then

 

And probably another starter still.

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#36 jorgenswest

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:51 PM

Archer and Quintana are pretty good comps looking at the last three years. I would expect the Rays to wait for a similar return.

#37 gunnarthor

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:52 PM

 

Are you suggesting Kepler is enough alone? I will take that bet.

No, I'm sure positional scarcity comes into this and the Rays are going to demand a big return. The concern is that he's not worth it and we end up making another Garza/Young trade in reverse.

 

I truly don't know how to value Archer. I don't think he deserves a Quintana, Sale etc type return. I don't think he's an ace. I think he's durable (really important) and he's benefited the last couple years from giving up fewer HRs than expected. I don't think he keeps that up, especially at TF.

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#38 Carole Keller

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:52 PM

If the Twins don't get Archer or overpay for him are we allowed to get the pitch forks out?


That’s Brian’s department.
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“May we teach our children that speaking out without the fear of retribution is our culture’s new north star.” ~Laura Dern
Nevertheless, she persisted. Time’s up.

#39 USAFChief

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:56 PM

If they could pull this off, sign another starter, and add an OFer I'll put my pitchfork in the hay mow.
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I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#40 Carole Keller

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:58 PM

If they could pull this off, sign another starter, and add an OFer I'll put my pitchfork in the hay mow.


I’d actually feel more comfortable if you just handed it to Brian.
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“May we teach our children that speaking out without the fear of retribution is our culture’s new north star.” ~Laura Dern
Nevertheless, she persisted. Time’s up.