Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: Report: Darvish Decision Expected This Week, Twins In Consideration

yu darvish chris gimenez jon morosi jon lester david ross
  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
331 replies to this topic

#41 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 12,735 posts

Posted 24 January 2018 - 07:58 PM

Andy Benes asked me the same question. I replied back “Mr. Big Stuff”.
True Story... except it probably wasn’t Andy Benes.


Sounds more like Alan.
  • Riverbrian likes this

#42 tvagle

tvagle

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 887 posts

Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:51 PM

Signing this week is a plus for the Twins...next week will be all-SuperBowl all-the-time, with it in Minnesota any news of a Darvish signing would get lost...it's either this week or the week before spring training

 

It's also quite possible that the Cubbies will make it a clean sweep of high priority Twins Targets

 

Duensing....Giminez and Darvish

 

Me Thinkee it will be Greinke if Darvish fails

 

It's time the Twins deal with the D-Backs for something other than a backup catcher

 

Gordon

Pearson

Baneulos (what's a D-Back trade without a catcher)

We eat $100M on Greinke contract

 

Edited by tvagle, 24 January 2018 - 09:18 PM.

Is it 2020 yet?


#43 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 14,220 posts

Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:40 PM

With deferred money, the present-day value of Greinke's contract was considered 6 years, $194 mil.  Of that, 4 years and roughly $130 mil remain.

 

If Darvish is getting a similar deal on the FA market, I don't see why Arizona would be eating cash and taking back less than elite prospects to move Greinke.  Greinke is a few years older, but with only 4 years left on the deal and coming off a 6.3 bWAR season, that helps mitigate the risk quite a bit.

 

FWIW, Greinke has a limited no-trade which includes 15 clubs.  Even if that list doesn't include the Twins, it significantly depresses his value on the trade market and thus increases the value of Arizona simply keeping him.


#44 tvagle

tvagle

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 887 posts

Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:37 PM

One Word...They want to re-sign JD Martinez

 

They will eat money back in the deal if it clears enough to re-sign JD

(or at least that's my take on this hypothetical starting point)

Edited by tvagle, 24 January 2018 - 10:37 PM.

Is it 2020 yet?


#45 Sconnie

Sconnie

    Touch ‘em all!

  • Members
  • 3,860 posts
  • LocationNW Wisconsin

Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:39 PM

One Word...They want to re-sign JD Martinez

They will eat money back in the deal if it clears enough to re-sign JD
(or at least that's my take on this hypothetical starting point)

thats way more than one word
  • Jerr, Riverbrian, Danchat and 2 others like this

#46 mikelink45

mikelink45

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 2,080 posts

Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:45 PM

Move on - I understand we have some young arms with lots of talent - I will take them.


#47 Deduno Abides

Deduno Abides

    Rochester Plates

  • Members
  • 1,781 posts

Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:45 PM

Move on - I understand we have some young arms with lots of talent - I will take them.


“I take them everywhere; they keep coming back.”
-Terry Ryan
  • Sconnie likes this

#48 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,805 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:16 AM

 

With deferred money, the present-day value of Greinke's contract was considered 6 years, $194 mil.  Of that, 4 years and roughly $130 mil remain.

 

If Darvish is getting a similar deal on the FA market, I don't see why Arizona would be eating cash and taking back less than elite prospects to move Greinke.  Greinke is a few years older, but with only 4 years left on the deal and coming off a 6.3 bWAR season, that helps mitigate the risk quite a bit.

 

FWIW, Greinke has a limited no-trade which includes 15 clubs.  Even if that list doesn't include the Twins, it significantly depresses his value on the trade market and thus increases the value of Arizona simply keeping him.

 

Rumors are rumors but there are rumors the D-Backs are shopping him. True? Not true? IDK

 

My theory... they would have to eat cash because they already went over value to outbid others to sign him. 

 

 

 

 

  • Thrylos and tvagle like this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#49 Platoon

Platoon

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 4,854 posts
  • LocationTwinsWorld

Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:16 AM

Andy Benes asked me the same question. I replied back “Mr. Big Stuff”.
True Story... except it probably wasn’t Andy Benes.

And you probably aren't "Mr. Big Stuff"! :)
  • glunn and Riverbrian like this
TwinsWorld: Did you hear we just updated the Stadium Club?

If I wanted balls and strikes called by a robot, I would get an Xbox!

#50 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 14,220 posts

Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:40 AM

One Word...They want to re-sign JD Martinez

They will eat money back in the deal if it clears enough to re-sign JD
(or at least that's my take on this hypothetical starting point)


It is a cute theory, but that's about it. Why would Arizona eat $30 mil to get rid of Greinke's remaining 4/130, just to sign a bad defensive corner OF for 5/125 or more? That's not saving money at all, and arguably a talent downgrade.

I understand that they have explored some options with Greinke, but I would shocked if they found this proposed deal acceptable.

#51 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 14,220 posts

Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:43 AM

Rumors are rumors but there are rumors the D-Backs are shopping him. True? Not true? IDK

My theory... they would have to eat cash because they already went over value to outbid others to sign him.


MLBTR has reported zero Greinke information for the last month:

https://www.mlbtrade...m/zack-greinke/

I really doubt they are that desperate to move him. In fact, if/when Darvish signs for a comparable amount, Greinke's remaining contract will hardly seem "over value" anymore.
  • glunn likes this

#52 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,805 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:10 AM

MLBTR has reported zero Greinke information for the last month:

https://www.mlbtrade...m/zack-greinke/

I really doubt they are that desperate to move him. In fact, if/when Darvish signs for a comparable amount, Greinke's remaining contract will hardly seem "over value" anymore.

Could Be. I won’t dismiss your reasoning. Nor Mine. 😎
  • glunn likes this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#53 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Haighters gonna Haight

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,809 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:17 AM

Me Thinkee it will be Greinke if Darvish fails

 

It's time the Twins deal with the D-Backs for something other than a backup catcher

 

Gordon

Pearson

Baneulos (what's a D-Back trade without a catcher)

We eat $100M on Greinke contract

I applaud creative ways to use $100M across four years in the here-and-now, if we think money above that for Darvish is "dead money", and if it turns out Darvish himself can't be signed even for more.

 

In addition to the points already raised, I want to add a touchy subject: Greinke has moved around a lot. Most recently, the Dodgers, who can afford to sign anyone they want (they gave Kershaw-money to Kershaw), said "nah, we're good" when they had the chance to re-sign Greinke after a three Cy-candidate season tenure. I recall him being considered "aloof" early in his career; at age 34 he's probably a different guy by now, but I still have to wonder if he's thought to be not worth the trouble, if Arizona is now known to have him "available" in the right trade after a couple of years in close proximity to him. I don't overweight clubhouse chemistry, but it's a factor to consider.

  • glunn likes this

I always go the extra mile. That's what happens when you get lost easily.


#54 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,554 posts

Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:47 AM

 

Meh....we were told for years they were in on Cubans. Being "in on" a FA means little, imo.

 

 

Well, let's be clear about what we were "told". There's a huge difference between telling reporters you're sending evaluators to a workout for someone and that the team has an interest in them, versus saying someone "is a priority". You won't be able to come up with a single example of someone with the Twins saying the Twins are "in on" a bid for any of those Cuban players. I don't think there's any real similarity with what's transpiring with Darvish, do you?

 

  • Twins33, RaymondLuxuryYacht and gagu like this

#55 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,850 posts
  • LocationTaiwan

Posted 25 January 2018 - 09:33 AM

 

Move on - I understand we have some young arms with lots of talent - I will take them.

The Twins have many guys that might become #3's in a year or two. At some point you have to address the problem - Front of the Rotation arms. 

  • Carole Keller, glunn and Twins33 like this

Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Offseason (noun) - a time to propose trades assuming opposing GM's can't do the same basic analysis


#56 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Anyone got a smoke?

  • Twins Mods
  • 22,038 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 25 January 2018 - 09:36 AM

Move on - I understand we have some young arms with lots of talent - I will take them.

The Twins will still have those guys if they sign Darvish, no?
  • Twins33, Danchat and tvagle like this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#57 Lee-The-Twins-Fan

Lee-The-Twins-Fan

    Ft Myers

  • Members
  • 320 posts

Posted 25 January 2018 - 09:51 AM

 

Signing this week is a plus for the Twins...next week will be all-SuperBowl all-the-time, with it in Minnesota any news of a Darvish signing would get lost...it's either this week or the week before spring training

 

It's also quite possible that the Cubbies will make it a clean sweep of high priority Twins Targets

 

Duensing....Giminez and Darvish

 

Me Thinkee it will be Greinke if Darvish fails

 

It's time the Twins deal with the D-Backs for something other than a backup catcher

 

Gordon

Pearson

Baneulos (what's a D-Back trade without a catcher)

We eat $100M on Greinke contract

If I were the D-Backs, I wouldn't make that trade. Greinke is worth a lot more.

  • glunn likes this

#58 mikelink45

mikelink45

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 2,080 posts

Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:11 AM

 

The Twins have many guys that might become #3's in a year or two. At some point you have to address the problem - Front of the Rotation arms. 

That is true and I hope Berrios and Romero will move to that level.Old arms falling from the top of the rotation interest me less than those on the way up.We have hired a plethora of pitching coaches from mlb to minor leagues and then put more coaches overseeing those coaches.Let them earn their money.All aces start as prospects. 

  • glunn and TL like this

#59 mikelink45

mikelink45

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 2,080 posts

Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:16 AM

 

The Twins will still have those guys if they sign Darvish, no?

Sure and we will have a huge contract that will go on as Darvish diminishes in talent and the younger players will need to be paid and extended.I will never advocate for long term, huge contracts for players in their 30's.If the contract starts in their 20s and goes into their 30s yes.But I have watched too many of these great signings go bust.Paying a lot of money for what they did in their prime is only good when you have them in their prime.Look at Pujols. This article was written in 2012, but captures my total reluctance - https://www.cbssport...arting-pitchers/Beckett, Lackey, Lincecum, Wilson, Buerhle...all looked good in the years before the contracts.As far as I am concerned Darvish is already starting to show signs of slipping. 

  • glunn likes this

#60 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,850 posts
  • LocationTaiwan

Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:18 AM

 

That is true and I hope Berrios and Romero will move to that level.Old arms falling from the top of the rotation interest me less than those on the way up.We have hired a plethora of pitching coaches from mlb to minor leagues and then put more coaches overseeing those coaches.Let them earn their money.All aces start as prospects. 

I will take both personally. I have hopes for Berrios. Romero has the upside but he is very raw and has some significant injury concerns. I am uncertain if he will last more than a full season or two as a starter.

Of course, all aces start as prospects but not all prospects have the upside of an ace. Some come out of nowhere and surprise but the Twins mostly have MOR types in the system. You are going to be waiting a long time to put a strong playoff caliber rotation with the Twins system. And that is a problem imo.

  • Carole Keller, glunn and Twins33 like this

Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Offseason (noun) - a time to propose trades assuming opposing GM's can't do the same basic analysis




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: yu darvish, chris gimenez, jon morosi, jon lester, david ross