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Add Romero and Gonsalves to Staff!

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#1 Twinfan & Dad

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:54 AM

I know that this is a minority and probably insane idea with our starting pitching construction but hear me out anyways. I think everyone would agree that last season our 3-5 spots in the rotation were a who's on first mystery until Gibson settled in after the All-Star break giving us a respectable 1-3 along with Santana and Berrios. Colon gave us a shot in the arm over a stretch and Mejia was up and down. We have May and Pineda recovering from Tommy John with May estimated to be back by mid-season. Our bullpen is much improved and as we have seen high end pens CAN turn a starters job into a 5 inning night. WHY THEN CAN'T WE TAKE THIS APPROACH WITH THE 4 AND 5 SPOTS IN THE ROTATION? Give the rookies a shot. Low cost, high upside and flexibility to make future trades without buying in to this less than desirable free agent class of starting pitchers. Could the rookies perform any worse than our 4 and 5 last year before the break? WAIT I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT-YES OF COURSE IT COULD BE A DISASTER! But it is a option. We can always find another veteran to be an innings eater or use Hughes or Mejia to serve as a fall back plan. THIS VIEW IS BASED ON NOT BUYING IN TO THE FREE AGENT STARTING PITCHING. I am however all in on a trade for starting pitching but not using Lewis as a chip. Just an idea so fire away Twins fans.
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#2 Mike Sixel

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:58 AM

If be ok with this plan, if they don't sign a free agent. Makes them more ready for 2019, and gives the team more data.
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#3 howieramone2

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:04 AM

 

I know that this is a minority and probably insane idea with our starting pitching construction but hear me out anyways. I think everyone would agree that last season our 3-5 spots in the rotation were a who's on first mystery until Gibson settled in after the All-Star break giving us a respectable 1-3 along with Santana and Berrios. Colon gave us a shot in the arm over a stretch and Mejia was up and down. We have May and Pineda recovering from Tommy John with May estimated to be back by mid-season. Our bullpen is much improved and as we have seen high end pens CAN turn a starters job into a 5 inning night. WHY THEN CAN'T WE TAKE THIS APPROACH WITH THE 4 AND 5 SPOTS IN THE ROTATION? Give the rookies a shot. Low cost, high upside and flexibility to make future trades without buying in to this less than desirable free agent class of starting pitchers. Could the rookies perform any worse than our 4 and 5 last year before the break? WAIT I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT-YES OF COURSE IT COULD BE A DISASTER! But it is a option. We can always find another veteran to be an innings eater or use Hughes or Mejia to serve as a fall back plan. THIS VIEW IS BASED ON NOT BUYING IN TO THE FREE AGENT STARTING PITCHING. I am however all in on a trade for starting pitching but not using Lewis as a chip. Just an idea so fire away Twins fans.

Berrios in 2016 is the reason why. Mejia, Gonsalves, and Romero with all get their chance, in the not too distant future. Lewis is untouchable.

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#4 Doomtints

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:11 AM

I don't know why the Twins would ever sign a #4 or #5 pitcher, they would overpay for sure. These spots should always go to internal guys.

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#5 nicksaviking

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:24 AM

I'm all for giving the rookies spotlight gigs but I don't think the front office and I know the manager aren't.

 

If this team isn't going to get Darvish and isn't going to trade for a front of rotation arm, they should roll with the youth because their only shot at getting over Cleveland, Boston, Houston and New York is to get lucky that one of the young guys surprises everyone and steps up to be some kind of phenom.


#6 Dman

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:25 AM

 

I know that this is a minority and probably insane idea with our starting pitching construction but hear me out anyways. I think everyone would agree that last season our 3-5 spots in the rotation were a who's on first mystery until Gibson settled in after the All-Star break giving us a respectable 1-3 along with Santana and Berrios. Colon gave us a shot in the arm over a stretch and Mejia was up and down. We have May and Pineda recovering from Tommy John with May estimated to be back by mid-season. Our bullpen is much improved and as we have seen high end pens CAN turn a starters job into a 5 inning night. WHY THEN CAN'T WE TAKE THIS APPROACH WITH THE 4 AND 5 SPOTS IN THE ROTATION? Give the rookies a shot. Low cost, high upside and flexibility to make future trades without buying in to this less than desirable free agent class of starting pitchers. Could the rookies perform any worse than our 4 and 5 last year before the break? WAIT I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT-YES OF COURSE IT COULD BE A DISASTER! But it is a option. We can always find another veteran to be an innings eater or use Hughes or Mejia to serve as a fall back plan. THIS VIEW IS BASED ON NOT BUYING IN TO THE FREE AGENT STARTING PITCHING. I am however all in on a trade for starting pitching but not using Lewis as a chip. Just an idea so fire away Twins fans.

It is a big jump from AAA to the majors for pitchers.Berrios looked untouchable in AAA and miserable in the bigs.Some transition better than others.

 

That being said I am not against trying the young guys.I agree with Mike in that they should gain experience and get better as the year goes on and if they fail miserably there appear to be fall back options for the 4 and 5 starters.

 

Most teams don't like doing that though.Each win early in the season is precious as the FO wants to keep fan interest up throughout the year.Money talks.Best to start with vets until they fail as they have proven they can handle MLB and have stats that give a better indication of performance.Rookies are generally just to prone to making big mistakes.So best to take that risk when the season looks lost or injury's force your hand.

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#7 Sconnie

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:35 AM

I'd be hesitant to throw a guy to the fire too early, but generally would rather give the 4-5 spots in the rotation to Romero and Gonsalves than Gibson and Mejia.

 

I can't imagine both Romero and Gonsalves are "ready" - maybe, maybe not. Mejoia could start the season in AAA on the Rochester express with Romero or Gonsalves as the 4th spot, Gibson number 5 (so the rookie gets the consistent every time thru rotation starts).


#8 SF Twins Fan

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:36 AM

The reason the Twins don't do this is because they actually want to win this year. Having a rotation of Santana, Berrios, Gibson, Gonsalves and Romero is a disaster waiting to happen. You don't put two rookies in the rotation to start a season when you have a legit chance, at least on paper, to make a run in the playoffs. Especially when those two rookies have a combined grand total of 5 starts at AAA. Also, as the Romero article that was just posted mentioned he's going to be on an innings limit this season of ~ 140. It's much easier to manage those innings in the minor leagues than it is in the MLB. 

 

There is ZERO reason to not spend money on one of the FA pitchers this offseason as long as the contract they hand out isn't 6 or 7 years. The Twins have plenty of money to spend before they hit their internal salary cap and barely have any players signed past this season.

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#9 Shaitan

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:40 AM

Make them earn it.

 

One of the (many) problems with the 2011-2016 teams is that they handed the job to rookies who hadn't earned it yet, making them feel entitled to the job (in my opinion). Sano is about the only call-up in that period to take the job and run with it, instead of riding the AAA/MLB/AAA shuttle for 2-3 seasons as they figured it out.

 

 

Edited by Shaitan, 23 January 2018 - 10:41 AM.

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#10 Sconnie

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:00 AM

 

The reason the Twins don't do this is because they actually want to win this year. Having a rotation of Santana, Berrios, Gibson, Gonsalves and Romero is a disaster waiting to happen. You don't put two rookies in the rotation to start a season when you have a legit chance, at least on paper, to make a run in the playoffs. Especially when those two rookies have a combined grand total of 5 starts at AAA. Also, as the Romero article that was just posted mentioned he's going to be on an innings limit this season of ~ 140. It's much easier to manage those innings in the minor leagues than it is in the MLB. 

 

There is ZERO reason to not spend money on one of the FA pitchers this offseason as long as the contract they hand out isn't 6 or 7 years. The Twins have plenty of money to spend before they hit their internal salary cap and barely have any players signed past this season.

You and I have a different opinion of Gibson and Mejia

 

I believe this decision is more about controllability and/or player readiness.

 

I gotta think Romero or Gonsalves have the physical abilities to win more MLB games than either Gibson or Mejia, but don't yet hve the maturity to deal with the setbacks to recover and grow on a continud trajectory, yet... soon...

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#11 Sconnie

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:31 AM

Also, as the Romero article that was just posted mentioned he's going to be on an innings limit this season of ~ 140. It's much easier to manage those innings in the minor leagues than it is in the MLB.


How many MLB 4-5 starters exceed 160 innings in a year? Skip a start in June, one in Aug, and always the normal all star break hoopla, and your problem is solved

#12 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:34 AM

I think leaving one spot to be fought over between Mejia, May(eventually), Gonsalves, Romero, and Littell makes sense... not so much about 2. Between injuries and rookies taking lumps, that could lead to a lot of guys in the rotation before they are ready.

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#13 Twinfan & Dad

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:47 AM

By not buying into this free agent class and using the rookies initially in the rotation with Hughes and Mejia as fallback options if they falter, it also allows us to be buyers at the trade deadline. Look at what our 4 and 5 guys did pre All-Star last year. A disaster. IF,IF IF we are still within striking distance at the break, we can be buyers if the opportunity arises plus hopefully May is back as another shot in the arm. KEEP THE FLEXIBILITY AND DONT OVERPAY FOR THIS GROUP OF FREE AGENTS!

#14 mikecgrimes

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:17 PM

If you know berrios and Santana will be fine then sure. There's a 50% chance one will suffer a long term injury or have an era around 5. We need depth until your 8 quality starters deep with no question marks you need more.
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#15 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:19 PM

 

By not buying into this free agent class and using the rookies initially in the rotation with Hughes and Mejia as fallback options if they falter, it also allows us to be buyers at the trade deadline. Look at what our 4 and 5 guys did pre All-Star last year. A disaster. IF,IF IF we are still within striking distance at the break, we can be buyers if the opportunity arises plus hopefully May is back as another shot in the arm. KEEP THE FLEXIBILITY AND DONT OVERPAY FOR THIS GROUP OF FREE AGENTS!

 

We might not be in it at the ASG if this is the primary plan. I think they need to spend some cash. Had they done a better job developing talent, it wouldn't be, but this is what it is.

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#16 ashburyjohn

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:21 PM

For me it comes down to, "what is our window of contention?" If you think it starts, in earnest, in 2019 or even 2020, then you'll make different decisions than if you believe we're already well into it, and in that case much depends on how long you think that window remains open.

 

I say we're in that window now, and it will be a lengthy one, say five years. The latter half of the opinion means I wouldn't go all-in, in the usual sense (such as trading lots of prospects for MLB-ready talent), because that would make for a self-limiting outcome. But the first half means not taking steps that sacrifice the present too much, in hopes of "player development" or whatever. Moreover, human performance is fickle and unpredictable, so bad seasons can occur and still not change the overall window, ditto anomalous successes - the GM has to tack into the prevailing winds, each season.

 

So with that preamble, no, I wouldn't promote a rookie to this year's starting rotation, unless I am convinced that it won't cost even one win in April while the kid gets his bearings. Let the best prospects develop at AAA, like God intended.

 

Last spring would have been a different story.

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#17 Dantes929

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:24 PM

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence of you guys coming up and thriving so I have no problem with one of these guys starting the season with the Twins but both? First off, I think Meija has earned a spot and the top three are set. If we get a guy then it is Santana, said guy, Berrios, Gibson and Meija. If we don't get a guy then I think it is Gonsalves that gets first shot and see how Romero and May do after 2 months.

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#18 SF Twins Fan

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:29 PM

 

By not buying into this free agent class and using the rookies initially in the rotation with Hughes and Mejia as fallback options if they falter, it also allows us to be buyers at the trade deadline. Look at what our 4 and 5 guys did pre All-Star last year. A disaster. IF,IF IF we are still within striking distance at the break, we can be buyers if the opportunity arises plus hopefully May is back as another shot in the arm. KEEP THE FLEXIBILITY AND DONT OVERPAY FOR THIS GROUP OF FREE AGENTS!

 

Every year teams are going to have to overpay for free agents....that's just the name of the game. If the Twins go into the season with Santana and Berrios and then 3 spots up for grabs they're completely shooting themselves in the foot from the get go. Even if they sign one free agent they still have plenty of flexibility because there will be injuries - there always is and Gibson and Mejia have been been good and bad in the MLB. Absolutely no reason to hand two rotation spots to rookies who haven't earned anything.


#19 birdwatcher

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:57 PM

If all you can trade for or sign is a guy whose performance peak is as a #3, forget it. Go front line starter or don't go at all.

 

We need a front line starter from outside the system. A guy who's at least a #2/3. 

 

We have to expect that as many as 8 guys will get ten or more starts because of injury or ineffectiveness. We have more and better candidates to fill out the final two rotation spots. 

 

What we don't have is third starter on the 40-man who inspires confidence of much better than #3-4 type performance, and frankly, there's a real possibility that Santana and even Berrios won't give us much better than that.

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#20 Twinfan & Dad

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:13 PM

If all you can trade for or sign is a guy whose performance peak is as a #3, forget it. Go front line starter or don't go at all.
 
We need a front line starter from outside the system. A guy who's at least a #2/3. 
 
We have to expect that as many as 8 guys will get ten or more starts because of injury or ineffectiveness. We have more and better candidates to fill out the final two rotation spots. 
 
What we don't have is third starter on the 40-man who inspires confidence of much better than #3-4 type performance, and frankly, there's a real possibility that Santana and even Berrios won't give us much better than that.



Agreed but do you push your chips into the middle and go all in on Darvich or Arrieta as they are your only 1 and 2. We are the Twins and we wont have the opportunity to do this again until this contract would expire or do you keep what you have and see where things are at the trade deadline. I think the trade avenue could bear higher returns as long as Lewis is not included in the package.