Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Gallup

  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#1 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 15,193 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:32 PM

Any hot takes?kothfiig8u20hhbxavevjg.png

 

I'm starting to worry that baseball is pricing itself out of many families and new fans.Just from my own anecdotal experience, kids care far less about baseball than I remember caring about it.


#2 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Twins World Champions in 2019

  • Members
  • 9,668 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:35 PM

Gotta see methodology and what leagues they are included before can make a half way try for an intelligent comment towards this ;)

-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#3 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 15,193 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:53 PM

Straight from gallup.  


#4 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Twins World Champions in 2019

  • Members
  • 9,668 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:59 PM

"Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Dec. 4-11, 2017, with a random sample of 1,049 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia."

 

SSS ;)

 

 

Edited by Thrylos, 12 January 2018 - 09:00 PM.

-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#5 mikelink45

mikelink45

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 2,059 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:05 PM

I relate to this.I have a baseball card collection I hoped would go to my grandchildren.My grandchildren hardly know how baseball is played.They do not care.Times are changing and in ways that worry me since baseball has always been my favorite sport - by a large measure.Now I look at all those cards and I do not know what to do with them.


#6 Brandon Warne

Brandon Warne

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 1,164 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:27 PM

"Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Dec. 4-11, 2017, with a random sample of 1,049 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia."

 

SSS ;)

 

That's not a small sample size on a poll like this. Near as I can tell, this is a margin of error of about 4 percent.

Edited by Brandon Warne, 12 January 2018 - 10:30 PM.

  • Riverbrian likes this

Follow me on Twitter: @Brandon_Warne

Follow Zone Coverage on Twitter: @ZoneCoverageMN


#7 theBOMisthebomb

theBOMisthebomb

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 620 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:10 AM

Baseball still ranks 1st or 2nd in the US as far as number of youth participant. This recent Washington Post article has baseball particiation just slightly behind basketball: https://www.washingt...m=.3330e0c44016

Baseball is one of the things that makes this country great and I believe that it will always be popular and have a special place in the culture. We need to trust that the special game of baseball will continue to thrive.

Yes, there is a lot of work to be done to ensure baseball stays healthy. Yes, there is much entertainment competition among the young people and it is difficult to get them interested in a 'slow' sport such as baseball when they are used to staring at a flashing screen providing instant entertainment all day.

As far as pricing families out of the market. I don't think baseball is doing it any more than any other of the major sports. With the abundance of baseball games and deals for the consumer willing to do even a minimal amount of research, there are plenty of deals to be had. The extra value Twins games for the 2017 season in the family section were $10 and included a hot dog and soda. Do we remember the 33 games for $99 deal the Twins had at the start of 2017?

Baseball will survive and thrive.
  • wagwan and Vanimal46 like this

#8 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 15,193 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:29 AM

 

As far as pricing families out of the market. I don't think baseball is doing it any more than any other of the major sports. With the abundance of baseball games and deals for the consumer willing to do even a minimal amount of research, there are plenty of deals to be had. The extra value Twins games for the 2017 season in the family section were $10 and included a hot dog and soda. Do we remember the 33 games for $99 deal the Twins had at the start of 2017?

 

That's true, but that doesn't mean the ballpark experience is geared that way.It's geared towards 25-35 year olds with money to spend.From a short term business model it makes sense, not so much from a long term model.

 

Baseball lost some of it's mystique in bro-ing out.I guess that's just my sense, none of the kids I work with could give a rip about the local baseball team.

  • birdwatcher likes this

#9 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Haighters gonna Haight

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,590 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:14 AM

hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEWCKgBEF5IWvKriq

 

The Gallup poll cited here measures something, but probably not anything relevant to baseball's survival. Football is a once-a-week spectacle during its season, baseball is an everyday heartbeat during its. The troubled Tampa Bay Rays franchise attracted more home attendance in 2017 than did the NFL-leading Cowboys. You can use that as an alternative measure of how the sports touch people's lives.

 

NFL football is priced out of the reach of most families even moreso than baseball, and no one is predicting the sport's imminent doom. College football is not as far out of sight financially, but again many minor league baseball teams have season attendance figures on a par with top college football.

 

Moreover, football would have trouble selling out stadiums if games were played every day - in part because the rules of football would have to be drastically changed to enable that kind of frequency, thus decreasing the level of spectacle to that of, say, soccer (or maybe less, since futbol players don't play every day either).

 

Baseball can coexist, as apples do with oranges. I don't suggest complacency, particularly at the college and high school levels, but high major league ticket prices are a sign of robustness, not doom. At least in the major markets, fans are waving fistfuls of dollars outbidding each other for tickets - cue the other Philip J Fry meme. :)

  • Thrylos, PseudoSABR and Vanimal46 like this

I'm in big trouble at home. I used one of the couch pillows AS A PILLOW.


#10 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,529 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:16 AM

These are just my own theories based mostly on my own observations. Youth participation team sports is declining, and I think costs are a huge part of it, but it also probably has a whole lot to do with kids' choices to pursue non-sports entertainment options like gaming, etc. I personally believe we have a worsening cultural problem related to the whole "have and have not" polarity. Affordability is problematic for many, we know that.

 

Spectator sports are pricing MOST families out of the market, and have for many years. People say that this is not problematic, citing the fact that game attendance is still robust. I don't know the data points, but I don't need them to know that an average family of four in the City of St. Paul, for example, can't casually flip a coin and decide to scoot out to Target Field for a $125 night four times a season. The Vikings play 8 or so games in front of the same season ticket holders, as do the Timberwolves and Wild with what, 40 games? 

 

I personally have been saddened for half of my long adult life as I have witnessed how greed has won the fight. As long as there's an adequate supply of fans willing to pony up, why be concerned about the people who no longer are part of the demand? Who cares about them? And if the remaining demand will cough up even more, great. I've long thought, however, that at some point, professional sports hits a clearing price and we see an accident or three and a rapid deflation of owner profits, player salaries, agent proliferation, and all the cheating and scrambling for even more.

 

Buckwalter purportedly asked Chris Davis, "How much is enough?", and I sure wish all parties, owners, players, agents, advertisers, and maybe more than any of those, the fans, would ask the same question.

 

I very much miss going to professional baseball games. I can't do it in good conscience anymore, but also don't pass judgment on those who can. I just hope for more awareness about what a privilege it is to be part of the demand.

Edited by birdwatcher, 13 January 2018 - 11:24 AM.

  • TheLeviathan, Deduno Abides and Vanimal46 like this

#11 theBOMisthebomb

theBOMisthebomb

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 620 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:42 PM

That's true, but that doesn't mean the ballpark experience is geared that way.It's geared towards 25-35 year olds with money to spend.From a short term business model it makes sense, not so much from a long term model.
 
Baseball lost some of it's mystique in bro-ing out.I guess that's just my sense, none of the kids I work with could give a rip about the local baseball team.

I am with you that the ballpark experience at Target Field is not geared toward families or youth. They finally put a little play area out in left field last year. Other than that, there is really nothing for families. On the other hand, there are plenty of places to hang out and drink overpriced craft beer and not pay attention to the game. As far as the millenials not caring about MLB or the Twins, I have experienced that as well in the workplace. Sometimes I feel like an absolute dinosaur since I like rock and roll and baseball.
  • TheLeviathan likes this

#12 theBOMisthebomb

theBOMisthebomb

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 620 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:58 PM

These are just my own theories based mostly on my own observations. Youth participation team sports is declining, and I think costs are a huge part of it, but it also probably has a whole lot to do with kids' choices to pursue non-sports entertainment options like gaming, etc. I personally believe we have a worsening cultural problem related to the whole "have and have not" polarity. Affordability is problematic for many, we know that.
 
Spectator sports are pricing MOST families out of the market, and have for many years. People say that this is not problematic, citing the fact that game attendance is still robust. I don't know the data points, but I don't need them to know that an average family of four in the City of St. Paul, for example, can't casually flip a coin and decide to scoot out to Target Field for a $125 night four times a season. The Vikings play 8 or so games in front of the same season ticket holders, as do the Timberwolves and Wild with what, 40 games? 
 
I personally have been saddened for half of my long adult life as I have witnessed how greed has won the fight. As long as there's an adequate supply of fans willing to pony up, why be concerned about the people who no longer are part of the demand? Who cares about them? And if the remaining demand will cough up even more, great. I've long thought, however, that at some point, professional sports hits a clearing price and we see an accident or three and a rapid deflation of owner profits, player salaries, agent proliferation, and all the cheating and scrambling for even more.
 
Buckwalter purportedly asked Chris Davis, "How much is enough?", and I sure wish all parties, owners, players, agents, advertisers, and maybe more than any of those, the fans, would ask the same question.
 le
I very much miss going to professional baseball games. I can't do it in good conscience anymore, but also don't pass judgment on those who can. I just hope for more awareness about what a privilege it is to be part of the demand.

Well, if you are willing to sit in the upper deck then it is more affordable. Or, go early in the season when it is colder and ticket prices are cheaper. Last season, the extra value games were about $10 each. You can bring your own food into Target Field and take the train so you could get a family of four taken care of for about $50 total, or about the same cost as going to a movie. The game is propped up by TV money and until that dries up I don't see your issues getting resolved. There are other options such as stubhub.com and even scalpers where you can score cheap tickets. I have scored $5 tickets from scalpers in the lower level. No, you will not have prime seats or sit in a suite following these cheaper options, although you will probably get in the gate for a small amount of money.
  • birdwatcher likes this

#13 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 15,193 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:07 PM

For the record, I don't think this means baseball is dying off or anything.But it may be problematic in the long term.  

 

Baseball has lost some of it's magic for kids, for whatever reason.(though I think bird hate on quite a few good possibilities)


#14 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 16,400 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:57 PM

 

"Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Dec. 4-11, 2017, with a random sample of 1,049 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia."

 

SSS ;)

 

It's not a huge sample, but it's fair... I do wonder if they conducted that same sample size on June 4 instead of December 4 if it would give different results. 

  • Thrylos and VOMG like this

#15 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Haighters gonna Haight

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,590 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 13 January 2018 - 02:04 PM

It's not a huge sample, but it's fair... I do wonder if they conducted that same sample size on June 4 instead of December 4 if it would give different results. 

Watch ESPN on June 4 and see if that gives you an idea. The "N" in ESPN stands for "NFL" and "NCAA Football" simultaneously. :) And they don't program the way they do just to be contrary. There's an audience for football 17 months a year.

  • Riverbrian and Vanimal46 like this

I'm in big trouble at home. I used one of the couch pillows AS A PILLOW.


#16 Brandon Warne

Brandon Warne

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 1,164 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 02:24 PM

 

It's not a huge sample, but it's fair... I do wonder if they conducted that same sample size on June 4 instead of December 4 if it would give different results. 

 

It actually is a huge sample. This is how polls work.

  • nowheresville and VOMG like this

Follow me on Twitter: @Brandon_Warne

Follow Zone Coverage on Twitter: @ZoneCoverageMN


#17 tarheeltwinsfan

tarheeltwinsfan

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 758 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:45 PM

 

I relate to this.I have a baseball card collection I hoped would go to my grandchildren.My grandchildren hardly know how baseball is played.They do not care.Times are changing and in ways that worry me since baseball has always been my favorite sport - by a large measure.Now I look at all those cards and I do not know what to do with them.

My address is PO Box 432, Statesville NC 28687

  • ashburyjohn, USAFChief, PseudoSABR and 2 others like this

#18 Monkeypaws

Monkeypaws

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,123 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:14 PM

The next recession is gonna put those ticket prices in pretty rarified air. Franchises like Oakland, San Diego, Philly, White Sox, Miami and Tampa Bay gonna be toast.


#19 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,497 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 13 January 2018 - 09:56 PM

Very interesting discussion so far. It's interesting that every sport declined in popularity over the last 4-5 years... To touch on a couple more things besides what's already been discussed for the decline in baseball:

Cord cutting/Commercials: Lots of people have cut out cable in their bills, and don't have access to live sports. Especially baseball when the playoffs are broadcasted on FS1 and TBS. Kids today are used to a Netflix experience with no ads. Live sports are stuffed full of commercial breaks, and can be a grind to sit through.

Marketing: The other sports are dominating baseball in this department. Basketball IMO markets their stars the best, where even people like me that doesn't watch the sport can still name 4-5 stars. Baseball has fun stars too! Trout, Correa, Lindor, etc. should be marketed just as much.
  • Riverbrian and KirbyDome89 like this

#20 Tom Froemming

Tom Froemming

    Content Editor

  • Administrators
  • 1,585 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:09 PM

Forbes: MLB Sets Record For Revenues In 2017, Increasing More Than $500 Million Since 2015

 

Final paragraph: "In 1992, when Bud Selig took over as commissioner of MLB, league revenues were $1.2 billion. When accounting for inflation, revenues for the league have grown 325% in the 25 years since, or approx. 13% annually and over $500 million in the last two years."

 

I think baseball is doing just fine ...

  • Riverbrian likes this