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Article: The Top 20 Minnesota Twins Assets: Part 4 (1-5)

eddie rosario miguel sano jose berrios royce lewis byron buxton
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#21 birdwatcher

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 08:52 AM

If Mauer and his $23M contract obligation were offered free of charge to the other 29 teams, how many do you think would accept the offer?

 

Isn't this a classic example of a player who is worth more to his team than what they could get for him in a trade?

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#22 Seth Stohs

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:05 AM

 

I understand that Mauer only has 1 year left on his contract, but it is amazing, to me, that he doesn't even make it to #20 in this list of the club's most valuable assets. Less valuable than Trevor May, Tyler Duffey, Taylor Rogers, Adalberto Mejia, or Alex Kirilloff, eh? I'm not buying. If he has virtually minimal value as an asset, why even keep him in the lineup?:confused:

 

Cuz he's one of their best hitters and a key component to the solid Twins infield defense because of his glove at first base...

 

His trade value this offseason is probably valued because of the contract, as well as other teams' need for a 1B. That said, if the Twins are out of contention and he's available at the trade deadline, they could probably get something for him, though even then, it would be like $8 million for the final two months. All that factors in. 


#23 Tomj14

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:07 AM

 

If Mauer and his $23M contract obligation were offered free of charge to the other 29 teams, how many do you think would accept the offer?

 

Isn't this a classic example of a player who is worth more to his team than what they could get for him in a trade?

Texas, Boston and Milwaukee?


#24 slash129

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:28 AM

 

Sano has created the problem for himself and now he has to work his way out of it.Unfortunately it may not be here, as I could see him forcing his way out of town by continued erratic behavior.I hope not, but there is only so much a team can take.

Better bet would be to find a veteran he might listen to and have him on this club as a mentor for a year or two until he figures it out.

Sometimes however the person in question never figures it out until they have wasted all the talent and chances they had. 

 

Let's remember that the alleged (yes, I'm sticking with the legal lingo) incidents with both the photographer and the usher took place over two years ago. Unless details of other incidents that took place more recently are revealed, I'm not sure "continued erratic behavior" best describes Mr. Sano.For all we know, the Twins didn't know about the photographer incident but observed enough of their star third baseman's behavior that he has already required some correction.Perhaps his statement about having utmost respect for women and especially women in professional sports is a result of correction and realization that his past behavior wasn't cool.

 

I'm not trying to say that any possible incidents in the past don't matter and don't deserve resolution, but I'm reading way to many articles and posts that treat everything like it happened (if it happened) yesterday.

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#25 beckmt

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:29 AM

 

It’s hard for me to imagine an 18 year old prospect at low A (Lewis) is worth more than Berrios, Sano, and maybe even Rosario and Kepler, given their years of remaining control and having already proven themselves (at least) as MLB regulars.

Am I undervaluing Lewis?

I think the basis of this article is trade value, if you went to trade for Archer, the first name they would want in return would be Lewis, not Berrios.Lewis will probably be here in 2019 and should be here in 2020 with 6 years of control.That has very high value to clubs trading high value assets to a club that is playing for the short to intermediate run of contention. Lewis I believe is already close to 30 in the top 100 prospects and with another great year will probably make the top 10.All this has a great deal of trade value.

Edited by beckmt, 03 January 2018 - 09:45 AM.


#26 beckmt

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:44 AM

 

Let's remember that the alleged (yes, I'm sticking with the legal lingo) incidents with both the photographer and the usher took place over two years ago. Unless details of other incidents that took place more recently are revealed, I'm not sure "continued erratic behavior" best describes Mr. Sano.For all we know, the Twins didn't know about the photographer incident but observed enough of their star third baseman's behavior that he has already required some correction.Perhaps his statement about having utmost respect for women and especially women in professional sports is a result of correction and realization that his past behavior wasn't cool.

 

I'm not trying to say that any possible incidents in the past don't matter and don't deserve resolution, but I'm reading way to many articles and posts that treat everything like it happened (if it happened) yesterday.

I believe I have read on other Twins related websites (or maybe this one) that it was well known in Chattanooga to keep Sano away from female personnel. This was not portrayed as a one time incident. At the major league level away from the park and the team an individual has much more freedom, and I assume many more chances to meet females.At Sano's level a great number of them would be more willing and out of public view there is a much less chance of anything being reported, even if Sano was in the wrong as long as it did not go to rape.There is a problem here and now the Twins have to address it.  


#27 Nick Nelson

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:44 AM

 

I understand that Mauer only has 1 year left on his contract, but it is amazing, to me, that he doesn't even make it to #20 in this list of the club's most valuable assets. Less valuable than Trevor May, Tyler Duffey, Taylor Rogers, Adalberto Mejia, or Alex Kirilloff, eh? I'm not buying. If he has virtually minimal value as an asset, why even keep him in the lineup?:confused:

I'm glad this topic arose, because it was definitely one of the main thinkers that hit me as I compiled the list.

 

First of all, I love Joe Mauer, and he redeemed himself in a big way last year. I'm glad to have him in the lineup. No doubt about that. HOWEVER, I look at it this way: if you could dump him and his $23M salary this year and replace it with, say, Carlos Santana + a $3M reliever, you'd do that 10 out of 10 times, no? Or what if you could sign another solid slugging 1B for a fraction of Santana's price, and then have even more to spend elsewhere?

 

The fact is that an average-ish first baseman in his mid-30s who is extremely expensive -- and whose contract makes him unmoveable -- has little practical value for a team that's trying to build with a big-picture view. 

 

Mauer has some uncommon skills -- he's among the best defenders and most disciplined hitters at his position -- but the full package is pretty replaceable. Yes, I'd say more so than Kirilloff, May, Duffey, etc.

 

 

Nick, Would you mind sharing your 25-21 players with us? I am curious. The players aged 24 or younger on your list are very, very impressive. Looking at this list, I believe we need a catcher and several more starting pitchers under 25 to make me feel more comfortable with the Twins' future. Middle infield and OF look strong. We will need a 1B soon and maybe a 3B, but we can draw from our middle infielders for 3B. Do you think Dozier has the arm for 3B? As Dozier ages, that might be a good shift...or what about 1B for Dozier? Thank you for a great series.

I didn't really rank beyond 20 but I will say that some of the players who just missed the cut were Garver, Escobar, Thorpe, Rooker, Enlow, and Graterol. Anyone else that people feel deserves consideration?

 

(The question about Dozier playing third is a good one and probably deserving of its own longer thread/discussion)


#28 ashburyjohn

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:55 AM

Let's remember that the alleged (yes, I'm sticking with the legal lingo) incidents with both the photographer and the usher took place over two years ago.

I believe I have read on other Twins related websites (or maybe this one) that it was well known in Chattanooga to keep Sano away from female personnel.

At the risk of stating the obvious, there are other threads in which to address this topic. Or start a new one. But please don't pursue the merits of the Sano allegations further in this thread.

If jail and prison are synonymous, why aren't jailer and prisoner?


#29 slash129

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:58 AM

 

At the risk of stating the obvious, there are other threads in which to address this topic. Or start a new one. But please don't pursue the merits of the Sano allegations further in this thread.

 

Understood, but shouldn't calls to rid the team of Sano based on all of this be silenced as well.


#30 beckmt

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 10:02 AM

Rooker and Enlow might have made the top 20 for me.They would certainlyhave more trade value in my mind than a Duffey at this time.


#31 Tomj14

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 10:05 AM

 

First of all, I love Joe Mauer, and he redeemed himself in a big way last year. I'm glad to have him in the lineup. No doubt about that. HOWEVER, I look at it this way: if you could dump him and his $23M salary this year and replace it with, say, Carlos Santana + a $3M reliever, you'd do that 10 out of 10 times, no? Or what if you could sign another solid slugging 1B for a fraction of Santana's price, and then have even more to spend elsewhere?

 

 

Mauer has some uncommon skills -- he's among the best defenders and most disciplined hitters at his position -- but the full package is pretty replaceable. Yes, I'd say more so than Kirilloff, May, Duffey, etc.

I don't want three years of Santana and RP in exchange for 1 year of Mauer, but your second option I really like.

 

Honest question what has May and Duffey done that makes them difficult to replace? They both seem exactly like players that are fairly easy to replace? To me a few of our prospects would bring a bigger return than them.

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#32 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 10:12 AM

I don't want three years of Santana and RP in exchange for 1 year of Mauer, but your second option I really like.

Honest question what has May and Duffey done that makes them difficult to replace? They both seem exactly like players that are fairly easy to replace? To me a few of our prospects would bring a bigger return than them.


But can you replace them for equal salary as they make now? I believe that's league minimum (roughly) for both.
Likely not.
This article regards value, not just production.

#33 Tomj14

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 11:04 AM

 

But can you replace them for equal salary as they make now? I believe that's league minimum (roughly) for both.
Likely not.
This article regards value, not just production.

I think the answer is yes, Rogers, Hildenberger and Busenitz proved that and possibly a few more.

Also I was thinking this list was about trade value, IMO we could get more in return for a half dozen of our prospects not listed than May and Duffey.


#34 slash129

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 11:26 AM

 

I think the answer is yes, Rogers, Hildenberger and Busenitz proved that and possibly a few more.

Also I was thinking this list was about trade value, IMO we could get more in return for a half dozen of our prospects not listed than May and Duffey.

 

Nick stated that it was a combination of value to the team for ongoing success and possibly as a trade chip.The relief pitchers in question are already performing at the major league level, so they are somewhat of a known as far as ongoing success goes. They might not hold the trade value of a top 10 org prospect, but those prospects are still prospects.It's hard to project Rooker for the ongoing success side when he could pull a Paul Russo and never get there. On the other hand, Mauer gets a 0 in the contract and trade chip fields of the calculation, so that offsets his current value as hitter, defender, veteran presence and twilighting face of the franchise.

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#35 nicksaviking

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 12:13 PM

 

Rooker and Enlow might have made the top 20 for me.They would certainlyhave more trade value in my mind than a Duffey at this time.

 

I agree, Duffey started off hot, but by the end of the season he was easily the weakest link in the bullpen. I'm hopeful after a full offseason of gearing up for the pen instead of pensively hoping for a rotation spot he'll be a better reliever.

 

But I don't know what kind of value he has at the moment. I'd also think due to the position scarcity and his production at AAA that Mitch Garver might have quite a bit of value.

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#36 Tomj14

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 12:38 PM

 

Nick stated that it was a combination of value to the team for ongoing success and possibly as a trade chip. 

I understand this is subjective, but if you go off of those two things than Mauer is a huge asset, others have posted his AVG, OBP and defense (tied for 4th in WAR in the American league first basemen based on ESPN). Plus 23 million will be coming off the books next year.

IMO two league average at best relief pitchers (hope I am wrong) with little to no trade value isn't a key to ongoing success for the Twins. Rooker, Thorpe and Baddoo are more important to the Twins ongoing success, either as a trade chip or contributor to the team

Not trying to disrespect Nick this was a great article and hard to do

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#37 TNTwinsFan

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 01:10 PM

Rooker? Rooker? Rooker? **sigh**

 

Rooker is going to blow the doors off when he reaches MLB. Of course, I'll eat crow if he hits a wall at AA (which I will have to attend some of the games to make sure I see him in person.) But, I just don't think it happens. He'll be challenged at each level for about a month, then he'll figure it out and take off. He's no ABW II.

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#38 Darius

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:47 PM

I think Berrios is worth more than Lewis, currently. Young starting pitcher, with elite stuff and has shown elite results in the MLB for stretches, and in the high minors for years vs an 18-year old unknown who may or may not stick at short stop? Is there a GM in their right mind who would take Lewis if given the choice between the two today for nothing?

Think of it this way, if there were an expansion draft tomorrow, and the team had its choice of Lewis and Berrios, they'd take Berrios every time.

I can't think of any scenario where a team would give up Berrios straight up for Lewis. Maybe the Marlins, because their FO makes ridiculous moves all the time.
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#39 bobs

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:28 PM

Love the list.I'll throw a little caveat into the statement on Sano "having the stuff superstars and MVPs are made of".For me, the jury is still out on that...and that was before the off field stuff.He certainly has the physical tools, but that jovial, laid back, fun-loving approach may be what prevents him from ever being the player he could have been.The greats, and I mean the real greats of recent past, the Griffeys, the Ripkens, the Thomes all knew when it was time to work and when it was time to play, and that there was indeed a difference.If Miguel figures that out, the sky is the limit.If not, he's Mark Reynolds Part 2.


#40 bobs

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:29 PM

 

Rooker? Rooker? Rooker? **sigh**

 

Rooker is going to blow the doors off when he reaches MLB. Of course, I'll eat crow if he hits a wall at AA (which I will have to attend some of the games to make sure I see him in person.) But, I just don't think it happens. He'll be challenged at each level for about a month, then he'll figure it out and take off. He's no ABW II.

To me, he's the one guy possibly missing here.A year from now, that should change.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: eddie rosario, miguel sano, jose berrios, royce lewis, byron buxton