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Don’t hold your breath Twins fans

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#21 S.

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 06:52 PM

I'm not exactly the most positive person on this board, but c'mon, It's not even 2018 yet. Even if your expectations are low, give it a few more months before you start to panic. 

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#22 Roaddog

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:41 AM

I'm not too concerned as their really haven't been a lot of activity league wide.

#23 Doomtints

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:50 AM

Also, remember this is a sports team. A game. None of this actually matters to any of us, excluding anyone reading this who might be on the payroll.

 

We have to remember to not take this stuff too seriously. It's fun when the Twins win, but we have proven we will stay interested even if they don't, so it's only ourselves we are fooling when we go off on a tangent like this.

 

(And yeah, this goes both ways, there's also no reason to blindly support the bad decisions either.)

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#24 mikelink45

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:14 AM

 

Here's the thing. No Twins GM has ever said they'd sign a top free agent. Ever. Both Levine and Ryan have said similar things about payroll - stay within limits, build up a better farm/analytic department, look for good fits in FA. But every year, fans get super excited about a big name free agent signing here and then blame the GM when they don't get him.

This has a very different vibe - in this case the FO jumped up and said we are going to sign... It was not the fans who started this thread.

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#25 mazeville

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:24 AM

Come on.

 

Look, if come February the Twins haven't done much, then it's time to start hammering the team. But look at the facts:

 

1. TONS of free agents have yet to sign. That includes Yu Darvish, Alex Cobb and Jake Arrieta.

2. The overall market for starting pitchers has been completely non-existent thus far. Name one major trade involving a starter or free agent signing.

3. Few players have signed with new teams. Carlos Santana is the exception.

4. Few teams have done much. Outside the Yankees, Angels and Phillies, name one team that has made a major move?

5. Thus far, teams in the AL Central have gone backwards. 

6. There are plenty of reasons to be cautious about free agent starters. Would you give a six-year deal to Yu Darvish? I think the Twins should, even if it hurts them in that last year. But it's perfectly reasonable for a team to be cautious about such a contract given how fragile pitchers are these days. 

 

Seriously. There is no reason to start trashing the front office at this point. 

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#26 SF Twins Fan

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:34 AM

 

Come on.

 

Look, if come February the Twins haven't done much, then it's time to start hammering the team. But look at the facts:

 

1. TONS of free agents have yet to sign. That includes Yu Darvish, Alex Cobb and Jake Arrieta.

2. The overall market for starting pitchers has been completely non-existent thus far. Name one major trade involving a starter or free agent signing.

3. Few players have signed with new teams. Carlos Santana is the exception.

4. Few teams have done much. Outside the Yankees, Angels and Phillies, name one team that has made a major move?

5. Thus far, teams in the AL Central have gone backwards. 

6. There are plenty of reasons to be cautious about free agent starters. Would you give a six-year deal to Yu Darvish? I think the Twins should, even if it hurts them in that last year. But it's perfectly reasonable for a team to be cautious about such a contract given how fragile pitchers are these days. 

 

Seriously. There is no reason to start trashing the front office at this point. 

 

 

I agree with basically everything you've said except for the fact that the Yankee's have traded for Stanton and the Giant's just traded for Longoria. He's probably not a star anymore but still a good player.


#27 mazeville

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:36 AM

 

I agree with basically everything you've said except for the fact that the Yankee's have traded for Stanton and the Giant's just traded for Longoria. He's probably not a star anymore but still a good player.

 

When did Stanton become a starting pitcher? 

 

(Starter in this context = starting pitcher)


#28 SF Twins Fan

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:55 AM

 

When did Stanton become a starting pitcher? 

 

(Starter in this context = starting pitcher)

 

Well then yes, I agree with everything you said.

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#29 Dave The Dastardly

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:37 AM

Chill man. Strip down to your longjohns and step outside. Recognize the place? Yeah, it's Minnesota. The state where expectations are high, winter depression runs rampant and sports disappointment comes with our morning coffee. Visit U-Tube. Watch the '91 World Series then repeat after me: "This isn't Kansas anymore."

 

Thank all that may be holy.

 

You'll feel better when we once again cross the freezing mark and spring training starts. Then we can start ripping the Twins when they're in season. Right now it's the Vikings turn. Even though they haven't been cooperating.


#30 KirbyDome89

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 01:47 PM

 

Not only that, but keep in mind last year they were trying to build up a team that had just lost 100 games. That's probably a hard sell for most free agents, but also it doesn't make sense to add a bunch to your payroll when you don't know your baseline.

 

Now they have a much better idea of the talent of this team, and now it's married to some pretty positive results. This offseason -- or next, especially -- is the time to add. This offseason makes more sense with the big-money teams cutting payroll to get under luxury tax thresholds for next offseason. Beyond that, there are going to be more big-money teams than there are players next year, so that's going to trickle down to the markets for starters like Dallas Keuchel and Garrett Richards.

 

Sign Darvish now, save the headache of trying to outbid a jilted team next year.  

Agree that they need to start adding this offseason. They aren't winning the Kershaw sweepstakes next winter and they likely could end up paying more for lesser pitcher than they would get this year.  

 

This team sinks or swims with the young core. Holding off on adding to payroll in order to find a baseline for that group just means another year of talent on rookie contracts burned. 

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#31 Vanimal46

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 03:38 PM

Also, remember this is a sports team. A game. None of this actually matters to any of us, excluding anyone reading this who might be on the payroll.

We have to remember to not take this stuff too seriously. It's fun when the Twins win, but we have proven we will stay interested even if they don't, so it's only ourselves we are fooling when we go off on a tangent like this.

(And yeah, this goes both ways, there's also no reason to blindly support the bad decisions either.)


Great post. My days of living and dying by what my favorite team does is long over. Some feel it's a failure unless their team wins a championship, and that's their prerogative. For me, sports are nothing more than entertainment. I'd like my favorite teams to win more than they lose, but it doesn't affect my every day life if they lose.
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#32 Craig Arko

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 03:40 PM

 

Great post. My days of living and dying by what my favorite team does is long over. Some feel it's a failure unless their team wins a championship, and that's their prerogative. For me, sports are nothing more than entertainment. I'd like my favorite teams to win more than they lose, but it doesn't affect my every day life if they lose.

Indeed, one might call that a sign of maturity.

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#33 FunnyPenguin

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 04:06 PM

 

Indeed, one might call that a sign of maturity.

Maturity, what does that big word mean?

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#34 Craig Arko

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 04:16 PM

Maturity, what does that big word mean?


We will sell no wine before its time.
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#35 sampleSizeOfOne

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 06:23 PM

Indeed, one might call that a sign of maturity.


New we were gonna sign someone soon...

How much did we sign Maturity for?

And for how many years?

Personally, i hope it's a minor league contract with invite to spring training.

Joking aside, it sure is good to keep things in perspective.
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#36 Sconnie

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 07:51 AM

If they didn't have a grip on the talent on this team before they took the job, then they are horrible baseball execs. I don't believe that is true. They did know, and chose to ride the year out with basically no improvements, and even tried to tear down what was surprisingly performing better than they thought it would. The results were not tied to anything they did, as they did just about nothing (except try to sabotage it with jettisoning Kintzler and Garcia, and adding the rejected tanking Colon).

Still plenty of time to sign Darvish, until they let someone else sign him first. Personally, after watching him pitch for the Dodgers, I am not so keen on Darvish. Whether Darvish or Jake, or Lynn or Cobb, or whoever...... my bet is they will regret the contract before it is half over...... regardless. But I still want them to spend the money.

i read that more of, if it’s a hundred loss team, no amount of realistic free agent spend is going make them contenders. They needed the core to mature and take over the team into contention before legit free agent spend.

That’s happened in one season rather than two.
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#37 Sconnie

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 07:53 AM

New we were gonna sign someone soon...

How much did we sign Maturity for?

And for how many years?

Personally, i hope it's a minor league contract with invite to spring training.

Joking aside, it sure is good to keep things in perspective.

i didn’t know they had Napoli inked
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#38 old nurse

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 08:16 AM

 

I don't know. Lots of FAs go for the money first..... lots of FAs sign with bad teams. I think fans over estimate, where money is not close, just how important a good team is. It's mostly about money.

 

Secondly, it didn't take a genius front office to know the SP was bad, and was likely to remain bad. I don't understand what had to be analyzed or observed to know they needed more pitching last year. Whether there was pitching they liked or not, that's a different question. But no one had to observe anything for another year to know they needed more SP.

Last year's class of espn's top 20 free agents Castro signed with the Twins, Ramos with the Rays. 2014Lowrie and Rasmus with the Asros,2013 was Nolasco and Santana with the Twins,2012 was Jackson with the Cubs In 5 years previous to this one 7 of the top 100 free agents signed with teams that had 90+ losses. 4 of them were with the Twins. I do not think that 7would be considered lots. How well those seven signings worked out would be open to debate.


#39 Sconnie

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 08:24 AM

Last year's class of espn's top 20 free agents Castro signed with the Twins, Ramos with the Rays. 2014Lowrie and Rasmus with the Asros, 2013 was Nolasco and Santana with the Twins, 2012 was Jackson with the Cubs In 5 years previous to this one 7 of the top 100 free agents signed with teams that had 90+ losses. 4 of them were with the Twins. I do not think that 7 would be considered lots. How well those seven signings worked out would be open to debate.

we’re missing the part about competing offers....

I think winning has a component to attracting free agents, along with money as well as reputation and clubhouse culture type things.

I think Levine had struggles with signing Napoli last year even though he came in higher than where Napoli signed, partly because the Twins were so bad the year before, partly because no one really knew what to make of them.

#40 rv78

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 09:34 AM

 

Here's the thing. No Twins GM has ever said they'd sign a top free agent. Ever. Both Levine and Ryan have said similar things about payroll - stay within limits, build up a better farm/analytic department, look for good fits in FA. But every year, fans get super excited about a big name free agent signing here and then blame the GM when they don't get him.

Maybe No Twins GM has ever said they'd sign a top free agent but someone (The Owners?) DID say that the reason why the Twins wanted/built a new stadium was to increase revenue and that would allow them to be able to compete for top free agents. Since the new stadium has been built we as Twins fans have seen NO TOP FREE AGENTS signed. Keep waiting........ this organization is all about hype, hope and a prayer, and the level of gull-ability it can impose on it's fans.

 

One of the usual phrases is thrown at us every year, wait till next season, we are only a year or two away from competing, we have one of the best farm systems in all of baseball and when that next core of young talent gets here......

Edited by rv78, 31 December 2017 - 09:39 AM.

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