Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: Twins Must Get Creative To Lure Darvish

yu darvish
  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
140 replies to this topic

#121 Brandon

Brandon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,668 posts

Posted 23 December 2017 - 12:32 PM

The Twins made that statement in the past about their yearly revenue. They haven't had a similar 1-time payout since 1998 when the Diamondbacks and the Rays came into the league and everyone got $10 million. I would argue that unless they have a significant 1-time capital project (minor league facilities, international facilities, IT infrastructure, etc...) that there is not a valid reason for them to apply the 50% rule to this money and it should be available for this purpose.


They could earmark that money towards paying off the stadium. Paying the tax payers off early creates goodwill and creates more profit by eliminating an ongoing expense.

#122 Carole Keller

Carole Keller

    It’s all in the eyes of the beholder.

  • Twins Mods
  • 20,354 posts

Posted 23 December 2017 - 12:34 PM

Thanks for the clarification. I am leaning towards "not interested" in Darvish, especially if he wants to drag this negotiation out through mid-January. Sounds like Gerrit Cole could be acquired for less, and sooner, and Berrios might be better than Darvish after a couple more years anyway.


I’m still hoping for both! ;)

Merry Christmas, Twins Fans!
  • ashburyjohn, Sconnie and Hosken Bombo Disco like this
“May we teach our children that speaking out without the fear of retribution is our culture’s new north star.” ~Laura Dern
Nevertheless, she persisted. Time’s up.

#123 Hosken Bombo Disco

Hosken Bombo Disco

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 8,460 posts

Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:02 AM

Been pretty quiet with the Darvish rumors.

Maybe Darvish is deciding on which salad dressing to try at his next front office dinner meeting? Or has he even decided which team's front office to meet with next?
  • nytwinsfan likes this

It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All Star

Game and an old timer's game. - Vin Scully


#124 Doomtints

Doomtints

    Joe's Shades™

  • Members
  • 2,460 posts

Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:19 AM

I saw an article somewhere, mlb.com I think, which said the Twins haven't even met with Darvish yet. They plan to do so this week, though nothing was actually set up when the article was written.

 

This is the same old same old. The Twins are not seriously pursuing him. Darvish won't come to Minnesota. The Twins will have the obligatory "talk" with him but that's it.

 

Mind you, I think he is injury prone and I don't think the Twins will miss out by not having him. However, the Twins should be looking at others and there have been no rumors that I know of about the Twins pursuing the other available "aces".

Edited by Doomtints, 27 December 2017 - 11:25 AM.


#125 Hosken Bombo Disco

Hosken Bombo Disco

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 8,460 posts

Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:27 AM

I saw an article somewhere, mlb.com I think, which said the Twins haven't even met with Darvish yet. They plan to do so this week, though nothing was actually set up when the article was written.

This is the same old same old. The Twins are not seriously pursuing him. Darvish won't come to Minnesota.

Mind you, I think he is injury prone anyway and I don't think the Twins will miss out by not having him, but they should be looking at others (and there have been no rumors that I know of about the Twins pursuing others).

but, I think they are seriously pursuing him. Or, maybe they think they are seriously pursuing him. Where we agree is I don't think Darvish is their best option, dollar for dollar.

Edited by Hosken Bombo Disco, 27 December 2017 - 11:28 AM.

  • Doomtints likes this

It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All Star

Game and an old timer's game. - Vin Scully


#126 Carole Keller

Carole Keller

    It’s all in the eyes of the beholder.

  • Twins Mods
  • 20,354 posts

Posted 27 December 2017 - 12:30 PM

but, I think they are seriously pursuing him. Or, maybe they think they are seriously pursuing him. Where we agree is I don't think Darvish is their best option, dollar for dollar.


It’s so maddening ... I’m getting antsy just to know for sure one way or the other. Such an impatient I am ... I want it now! :)
  • Sconnie likes this
“May we teach our children that speaking out without the fear of retribution is our culture’s new north star.” ~Laura Dern
Nevertheless, she persisted. Time’s up.

#127 Doomtints

Doomtints

    Joe's Shades™

  • Members
  • 2,460 posts

Posted 27 December 2017 - 12:34 PM

 

but, I think they are seriously pursuing him. Or, maybe they think they are seriously pursuing him. 

 

This sort of makes it worse. I would rather have them not pursue him than pursue him incompetently.

 

But, as the philosophy goes, "wait and see..."


#128 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 3,947 posts

Posted 27 December 2017 - 01:49 PM

 

This sort of makes it worse. I would rather have them not pursue him than pursue him incompetently.

 

But, as the philosophy goes, "wait and see..."

How would we make the determination of incompetence anyway?Is anything short of netting Darvish incompetent? 

 

I think it's pretty clear the Twins are serious in their desire to retain Darvish's services; they may not, however, have the resources--or be willing to assign such a share of their resources--to obtain Darvish's services.But I don't see how anyone can credibly question their competency or their seriousness at this stage. 

  • Carole Keller, Nick Nelson and Hosken Bombo Disco like this

#129 Doomtints

Doomtints

    Joe's Shades™

  • Members
  • 2,460 posts

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:33 PM

 

How would we make the determination of incompetence anyway?Is anything short of netting Darvish incompetent? 

 

Did you skip some of the discussion? Not talking to him until the start of the year while other teams have been in dialog with him for a month would be an incompetent move. He could have signed weeks ago, then where would the Twins be if they were "serious" about getting him?

 

Have you ever been the last person to go to a buffet? Ever been the last person in line at a doorbuster? How were these experiences?

 

The logical conclusion is that the Twins are not serious about it. It's possible they told him months ago to "shop around, and we'll pay you more than your best offer" but does that really sound like the Twins (or any team in baseball)? Most likely the conversation they will have will be more along the lines of, "If you didn't get a serious offer yet, remember we're here." (Since Bill Smith is gone, they won't add, "So catch ya on the flippity-flop!" before paying the check and hopping back in the limo.)

Edited by Doomtints, 27 December 2017 - 02:37 PM.


#130 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 3,366 posts

Posted 27 December 2017 - 03:09 PM

Here's what is playing out right now – from my hopeful view:

 

Levine has a good enough relationship with Darvish and his agent that the two sides have kept an open line of communication. Thad signaled early on that his interest was very serious, and Darvish's camp indicated that the interest was mutual.

 

So over the past couple of weeks, Darvish has been meeting with other legit suitors to hear their pitches and receive their offers. Now he'll be able to go into a meeting with the Twins knowing full well what else is out there, and what his options are. Meanwhile, Levine will know exactly what kind of bids he's up against.

 

No matter how you look at it, I think Minnesota meeting with Darvish later in the process rather than earlier almost has to be viewed as a good thing... as long as it actually happens. 

  • Carole Keller, PseudoSABR, Sconnie and 1 other like this

#131 Doomtints

Doomtints

    Joe's Shades™

  • Members
  • 2,460 posts

Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:04 AM

 

Here's what is playing out right now – from my hopeful view:

 

Levine has a good enough relationship with Darvish and his agent that the two sides have kept an open line of communication. Thad signaled early on that his interest was very serious, and Darvish's camp indicated that the interest was mutual.

 

So over the past couple of weeks, Darvish has been meeting with other legit suitors to hear their pitches and receive their offers. Now he'll be able to go into a meeting with the Twins knowing full well what else is out there, and what his options are. Meanwhile, Levine will know exactly what kind of bids he's up against.

 

No matter how you look at it, I think Minnesota meeting with Darvish later in the process rather than earlier almost has to be viewed as a good thing... as long as it actually happens. 

 

If you were a recruiter at Microsoft, would you tell the person you wanted to hire to go ahead and talk to Apple and Google first, and you'd beat any offer? Or would you just hire them by having a good faith salary negotiation between you and the employee and no one else?

 

If your guess is true, the Twins would have been smarter to sign him at the start of the process. Likely those other teams he talked to over the past month were willing to pay him more than the Twins wanted, so now if the Twins want to stay in the game they also have to pay him more.

There would be no value in letting Darvish play the field for better offers. If the Twins were serious about him and used this tactic, this would be an incompetent move.

Likely what's actually going on here is Darvish (and his agent) are the ones in control. They are the ones setting up meetings. They will talk to the Twins just to see if they have a bigger offer. We of course know the Twins won't have one because if they did, they would have already spoken. And that will be the end of it.

The other possibility is that this is a "meeting between friends" where Darvish will get the opportunity to tell the Twins his plans before the Twins hear about it from someone else.

Edited by Doomtints, 28 December 2017 - 09:18 AM.


#132 Hosken Bombo Disco

Hosken Bombo Disco

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 8,460 posts

Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:40 AM

Sure, but if the client is interested in dragging this out until January, there's no point in going hard at him in November.

It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All Star

Game and an old timer's game. - Vin Scully


#133 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 3,366 posts

Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:48 AM

 

Likely what's actually going on here is Darvish (and his agent) are the ones in control.

Of course they are. Your suggestion of signing him before anyone else can talk to him is unrealistic. You don't really believe they were going to meet with the Twins early on, get one (likely unspectacular) offer and decide to sign without talking to other teams?

  • Carole Keller, PseudoSABR and nytwinsfan like this

#134 Doomtints

Doomtints

    Joe's Shades™

  • Members
  • 2,460 posts

Posted 28 December 2017 - 10:43 AM

 

Of course they are. Your suggestion of signing him before anyone else can talk to him is unrealistic. You don't really believe they were going to meet with the Twins early on, get one (likely unspectacular) offer and decide to sign without talking to other teams?

 

You say "of course they are" as if it's obvious, forgetting that I"m responding to you where you were saying something different.


#135 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 3,366 posts

Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:06 AM

I don't think I implied that Darvish and his agent are not in complete control -- to me that's a reality that goes without saying. I was only suggesting that his decision to speak to MN later in the process could signal that they're higher on his list of preferences, rather than the other way around as many on this thread seem to believe.

 

Using Apple/Microsoft/Google metaphors doesn't really work. This is MLB free agency. Different ballgame, so to speak. 

  • PseudoSABR and Sconnie like this

#136 Sconnie

Sconnie

    From the "right" side of the St Croix

  • Members
  • 3,564 posts
  • LocationNW Wisconsin

Posted 31 December 2017 - 08:01 AM

This from Bollinger:

"Levine said the Twins will continue to be patient yet aggressive in their pursuit of a front-line starting pitcher to join Ervin Santana and Jose Berrios. The Twins have yet to make an offer to Darvish, but he's not expected to make a decision anytime soon.
"The top end of the market tends to be more patient, because it's not like interest is going to evaporate," Levine said. "I think there are two tiers, with Darvish and Arrieta linked and then Lynn and Cobb linked. Time will tell how much they impact one another."

I just don't get how not making an offer is aggressive, at all. Seems that is just the opposite of being aggressive. One can't make a decision on it or accept an offer that is not made! If you want something, you make an offer. Before it is too late. Change it if it is rejected. But if you want Darvish..... make an offer!

negotiation can be very fickle, especially with different cultures.

Staying in conversation and gaining a feel for where the negotiation is starting is critical.

Too eager or too low of an offer and you’re out before it even starts. Too high and you look desperate or sign the guy for more than he would have signed for.

Since the big boys appear to be shedding payroll it makes sense to be patient.

I’d still like to see an additional (lower cost FA or trade) move made to bolster the middle of the rotation.

#137 Sconnie

Sconnie

    From the "right" side of the St Croix

  • Members
  • 3,564 posts
  • LocationNW Wisconsin

Posted 31 December 2017 - 08:12 AM

If you were a recruiter at Microsoft, would you tell the person you wanted to hire to go ahead and talk to Apple and Google first, and you'd beat any offer? Or would you just hire them by having a good faith salary negotiation between you and the employee and no one else?

If your guess is true, the Twins would have been smarter to sign him at the start of the process. Likely those other teams he talked to over the past month were willing to pay him more than the Twins wanted, so now if the Twins want to stay in the game they also have to pay him more.

There would be no value in letting Darvish play the field for better offers. If the Twins were serious about him and used this tactic, this would be an incompetent move.

Likely what's actually going on here is Darvish (and his agent) are the ones in control. They are the ones setting up meetings. They will talk to the Twins just to see if they have a bigger offer. We of course know the Twins won't have one because if they did, they would have already spoken. And that will be the end of it.

The other possibility is that this is a "meeting between friends" where Darvish will get the opportunity to tell the Twins his plans before the Twins hear about it from someone else.

”exuding quiet confidence” is what my mentor taught me in regards to the negotiation strategy. It tells a narrative “I’m confident in my organization’s attraction to you (the free agent). You (free agent) go talk to my competitors because I know you’ll keep your promise to come talk to me before you make the final decision and I’m confident you’ll sign with me”

Rarely does negotiation happen on your schedule, especially when the other party holds the upper hand.

Edited by Sconnie, 31 December 2017 - 08:15 AM.

  • Nick Nelson likes this

#138 Monkeypaws

Monkeypaws

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,922 posts

Posted 10 February 2018 - 05:34 PM

 

I'm gonna make the call - Darvish to Chicago Cubs.

 

My services are available for a modest fee....

  • ashburyjohn likes this

#139 Hosken Bombo Disco

Hosken Bombo Disco

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 8,460 posts

Posted 10 February 2018 - 06:15 PM

 

n the Offseason Handbook, we projected that Darvish would get a five-year contract worth $135 million.

In hindsight now, do you think that offer would have gotten it done, with maybe a little creativity added in, such as an opt out and Cy Young Winner bonuses? 

It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All Star

Game and an old timer's game. - Vin Scully


#140 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 8,783 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 10 February 2018 - 06:18 PM

In hindsight now, do you think that offer would have gotten it done, with maybe a little creativity added in, such as an opt out and Cy Young Winner bonuses?


I would think it gets it done, if you add same incentives and opt outs.
Papers...business papers.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: yu darvish