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Article: Twins Must Get Creative To Lure Darvish

yu darvish
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#21 Nick Nelson

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:28 AM

 

Creative? How about just pay the most?

I get that everyone wants the Twins to loosen up the purse strings but you realize there are basic fundamental realities at play when a mid-market team is vying against numerous large-market teams with virtually infinite budgets, right? 

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#22 bobs

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:59 AM

 

I'm not as high on Darvish as everyone else. He is a guy I can see getting injured and sitting out much of his contract.

 

I won't be upset if the Twins land him, but I caution everybody to temper their enthusiasm.  

Now THIS sounds like a Minnesota sports fan!!...lol

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#23 Original Whizzinator

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:10 AM

It is seldom that anyone ever mentions taxes when talking about signing players.Yet, they are and can be a major factor in these discussions.May not be for the player, but certainly his advisors.
 
I understand that players file tax returns in all markets in which they play.But half their games are at home, thus, half their income is taxed in the State of their home team.So that's a negative for Minnesota versus lots of teams...although not the teams from places like New York or California.And that hit will be bigger now that it appears State and local tax deductions are going to be limited.After all, $27,000,000 at almost ten percent is a lot of money...especially when your Federal deduction looks to be limited to $10k.  
 
Will this be a negative for the Twins?Or can they get creative and find a way to help their pitch?

The problem with playing in a state with lower taxes is you have to live there most of the year.
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#24 Original Whizzinator

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:13 AM

I'm not as high on Darvish as everyone else. He is a guy I can see getting injured and sitting out much of his contract.
 
I won't be upset if the Twins land him, but I caution everybody to temper their enthusiasm.

Yes as with any free agent acquisition.
Hughes with three times the money tied up.

#25 PDX Twin

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:13 AM

 

It is seldom that anyone ever mentions taxes when talking about signing players.Yet, they are and can be a major factor in these discussions.May not be for the player, but certainly his advisors.

 

I understand that players file tax returns in all markets in which they play.But half their games are at home, thus, half their income is taxed in the State of their home team.So that's a negative for Minnesota versus lots of teams...although not the teams from places like New York or California.And that hit will be bigger now that it appears State and local tax deductions are going to be limited.After all, $27,000,000 at almost ten percent is a lot of money...especially when your Federal deduction looks to be limited to $10k.  

 

Will this be a negative for the Twins?Or can they get creative and find a way to help their pitch?

 

And Darvish has been paying zero income tax in Texas. Seattle, Texas, Houston, Tampa Bay, and Miami could offer this advantage. 

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It's great to get out of the cellar ... as long as you bring something with you.


#26 Mike Sixel

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:27 AM

I get that everyone wants the Twins to loosen up the purse strings but you realize there are basic fundamental realities at play when a mid-market team is vying against numerous large-market teams with virtually infinite budgets, right?

I do. But he is the top free agent. The way to win the bidding is to win the bidding. I am just being realistic here. It's about the money.

These posts never once mentioned anyone being cheap. I never implied it either. The point is simple, if you want the most expensive asset, you have to pay up.

Edited by Mike Sixel, 18 December 2017 - 11:02 AM.

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There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#27 Tomj14

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:02 AM

 

The problem with playing in a state with lower taxes is you have to live there most of the year.

Yes Florida, Tenn, Texas would be horrible places to live.

 

The reason athletes don't mention taxes as a reason is because those that do get destroyed in the Media and by people about not paying their fair share. (look what they said about Phil Mickelson when he talked about moving out of Cali for tax reasons)

But if taxes didn't matter you wouldn't have athletes owning places in FLA or Texas when signing their contract so any bonuses won't be taxes at 10%.


#28 laloesch

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:10 AM

 

Yes Florida, Tenn, Texas would be horrible places to live.

 

The reason athletes don't mention taxes as a reason is because those that do get destroyed in the Media and by people about not paying their fair share. (look what they said about Phil Mickelson when he talked about moving out of Cali for tax reasons)

But if taxes didn't matter you wouldn't have athletes owning places in FLA or Texas when signing their contract so any bonuses won't be taxes at 10%.

 

Or Joe Mauer.Florida is his home away from home.When he's not playing baseball he doesn't live in Minnesota.


#29 Doomtints

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:11 AM

 

Now THIS sounds like a Minnesota sports fan!!...lol

 

Except I don't live in Minnesota. 

 

Look at Darvish's history. He has played one full season, every other year has seen him riding the pine due to injury.


#30 bobs

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:15 AM

 

Except I don't live in Minnesota. 

 

Look at Darvish's history. He has played one full season, every other year has seen him riding the pine due to injury.

Oh I agree.I'd rather see an Alex Cobb-type PLUS a good reliever than Darvish, for the same money. It's just funny...because that's how we Minnesotans have come to see our sports teams.What will go wrong?We're all waiting for the Vikings carriage to turn into a pumpkin (even though I don't think it will).Wolves are disappointing.Gopher basketball loses at Nebraska and almost loses to Drake......we tend to have a doomsday outlook on our sports.Even though our Twins have won two WS in my lifetime.

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#31 laloesch

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:17 AM

 

The problem with playing in a state with lower taxes is you have to live there most of the year.

 

Doesn't stop Joe Mauer from doing it.He lives in Florida the entire offseason.


#32 laloesch

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:22 AM

 

Players in the upper salary echelons sometimes set up charitable trusts and the like. An extra $3M to feed some additional hungry children might still get such a player's attention.

 

It also reduces there tax bracket. 

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#33 Doomtints

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:23 AM

 

Oh I agree.I'd rather see an Alex Cobb-type PLUS a good reliever than Darvish, for the same money. It's just funny...because that's how we Minnesotans have come to see our sports teams.What will go wrong?We're all waiting for the Vikings carriage to turn into a pumpkin (even though I don't think it will).Wolves are disappointing.Gopher basketball loses at Nebraska and almost loses to Drake......we tend to have a doomsday outlook on our sports.Even though our Twins have won two WS in my lifetime.

 

I feel like the Vikings are about to go on a 1970s-like run where they dominate the league for a few years. (But, bear in mind, they never won a championship in that era....) They look a hell of a lot like the 2000 Ravens right now, and I think they can beat anybody in the NFC. What worries me is Pittsburgh, I think they could beat the Patriots too.

I don't follow the Wolves or the Wild. :o


#34 Nick Nelson

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:33 AM

 

I do. But he is the top free agent. The way to win the bidding is to win the bidding. I am just being realistic here. It's about the money.

These posts never once mentioned anyone being cheap. I never implied it either. The point is simple, if you want the most expensive asset, you have to pay up.

But top free agents HAVE opted for an offer with slightly less money because there were other factors that swayed them. That's far from unprecedented. So that's what I'm angling for here. How might the Twins make it happen in this case?

Not all of these scenarios necessarily equate to the Twins winning with a lower bid, either. The deferred money concept, for instance, could enable MN to offer the highest total money while staying within plausible payroll constraints during his contract. 

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#35 Tomj14

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:37 AM

 

It also reduces there tax bracket. 

Doesn't reduce their tax bracket, it reduces their tax burden, but it is still money coming out of their accounts, and many believe they can do better to help people then giving it to the state or Feds, and who are we to argue to that point?


#36 USAFChief

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:46 AM

 

Doesn't reduce their tax bracket, it reduces their tax burden, but it is still money coming out of their accounts, and many believe they can do better to help people then giving it to the state or Feds, and who are we to argue to that point?

Not only doesn't it reduce a tax bracket, it increases the amount of money they don't have.

 

If you give $3M to charity, you're out $3M.  

 

If you keep that $3M, and pay taxes on it, you keep some portion of the $3M.  

 

So you end up with more money by not donating.

 

Giving to charity is giving to charity.It's not about taxes.

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Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#37 Doomtints

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:49 AM

 

Doesn't reduce their tax bracket, it reduces their tax burden, but it is still money coming out of their accounts, and many believe they can do better to help people then giving it to the state or Feds, and who are we to argue to that point?

 

I don't want to digress this too far, but to answer your last question, we are American citizens, and we have a say in taxation and spending.

 

If a "millionaire" chooses to contribute to infrastructure (roads, bridges, etc.,), they will be toll roads/toll bridges. If a "millionaire" chooses to contribute to education, it will be to higher education or private education. Sure, there are exceptions, but not many.

 

I see where your proclivities are (and I know changing your view would be impossible), but if you ever find yourself in Chicago I can take you to some parties with this privileged class and you will learn quickly that they are not interested in helping people outside of their class -- and they have learned how to determine if someone is in their class within 2 minutes of talking to them. Unless you can work your way through their coded language, you will have a lot of people walk away from you in mid-sentence, sometimes calling you stupid to your face before doing so!

Edited by Doomtints, 18 December 2017 - 12:01 PM.

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#38 spycake

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 12:19 PM

 

In January of 2016, when the Baltimore Orioles signed slugger Chris Davis to a seven-year, $164 million contract, they deferred $42 million of it. He receives $3.5 million every year from 2023-32, and then $1.4 million annually through 2036.

This reduced Baltimore's actual commitment on the ledgers to $119 million over the seven years, or $17 million AAV. The deferral is interest-free, which works in the club's favor, but Davis can look forward to steady income well into his retirement.

 

 

When you picked a contract as an example to sign somebody couldn't you have found someone who did well after signing the contract?

 

Perhaps a more palatable example of deferred money is Max Scherzer:

https://www.fangraph...nt-210-million/

 

Or even Zack Greinke:

https://www.usatoday...aries/77077480/

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#39 rdehring

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 12:25 PM

 

Or Joe Mauer.Florida is his home away from home.When he's not playing baseball he doesn't live in Minnesota.

I know he bought a fantastic home in Deephaven (or next to it).Was that last year?Anyway, I wonder if he might live there year round when his kids start going to school?

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#40 cmoss84

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 12:28 PM

I would be very hesitant to offer a 4, 5, or even 6 year deal. I would rather overpay on a 2 or 3 year deal that may or may not include a player option. Something like 2/66 with a player option for 3rd year, making it a 3/99 contract. 

 

I really like Darvish and would love getting him, but he is no spring chicken anymore. 

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