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Article: Winter Meetings - Search For A Starter

gerrit cole chris archer zack granite tyler jay nick gordon
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#41 gunnarthor

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:21 AM

 

I would do the trade for Cole in a heartbeat, and then sign other starter (no worse than Lynn/Cobb with preferring Cobb.  

I am OK with the Archer - Longorilla trade including Sano.Sano is a Boras client and Twins chances of retaining him for more than 4 years are small.I would see if Sano is interested in a 6 year deal before I did this, but hope the Twins have already done their work.Sano + Gordon + Starter and Granite should be somewhere in the ballpark.

Sano is represented by roc nation, just like his idol, Robinson Cano. 

http://rocnation.com/miguel-sano/

 

Lewis is a Boras client (and so is Gerritt Cole)


#42 amjgt

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:28 AM

I don't include Royce Lewis in any trade, unless it's a reasonably priced top 5 MLB pitcher with plenty of team control remaining

 

AKA - I'm not trading Royce Lewis

 

 

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#43 Thrylos

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:39 AM

Cole makes sense, but If I was talking to the Pirates, it makes more sense to package him with MacCutchen and Rivero. Here is what I proposed.

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#44 ThejacKmp

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:49 AM

I'm a fan of just signing Arrieta. I know there are some concerns health-wise but he's got less mileage on his arm than most because of his slow development and all he costs is a second round pick. He also seems like a guy you can get for four years instead of going five or six. That contract might be rough the last year but that's the risk you take.

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#45 mudcat14

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:50 AM

I do Cole for Gordon, Jay & Granite in a heartbeat.Offer Cole a deal in the 4-year / $40-48mil range and buy out his remaining remaining two arb years & first two years of FA.The guy could be a horse.

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#46 SF Twins Fan

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:53 AM

 

I do Cole for Gordon, Jay & Granite in a heartbeat.Offer Cole a deal in the 4-year / $40-48mil range and buy out his remaining remaining two arb years & first two years of FA.The guy could be a horse.

 

That's probably a bit light on what it would take to get a Boras client to sign an extension. Probably closer to 4 years for $60mil.


#47 rghrbek

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:56 AM

I hope there is some truth to the rumor Seth posted...however, in my opinion, there is no way the Pirates asked for that little in return...

 

All 3 unproven and the only pitcher is a reliever?

 

If it's true the Twins should have done it by now.  Ripped up the arb years and pay him 4/years 66 mil...Nice raise over the arb years


#48 amjgt

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:03 AM

 

I hope there is some truth to the rumor Seth posted...however, in my opinion, there is no way the Pirates asked for that little in return...

 

All 3 unproven and the only pitcher is a reliever?

 

If it's true the Twins should have done it by now.  Ripped up the arb years and pay him 4/years 66 mil...Nice raise over the arb years

 

The rumor comes from a Pirates fan site, not Seth. Which gives it more credibility than if it came from "us"

 

And actually, the reaction from what seemed like Pirates fans on Twitter, was positive. 

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#49 gunnarthor

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:08 AM

 

I hope there is some truth to the rumor Seth posted...however, in my opinion, there is no way the Pirates asked for that little in return...

 

All 3 unproven and the only pitcher is a reliever?

 

If it's true the Twins should have done it by now.  Ripped up the arb years and pay him 4/years 66 mil...Nice raise over the arb years

We might also be over estimating Cole. He has name recognition but he was decidedly average last year and only threw 116 ml innings the year before. He can eat innings but his era and fip weren't great. What do we think we're getting for his two years?

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#50 Seth Stohs

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:08 AM

 

Seth, Darvish wouldn't cost a draft pick. You have that wrong. He was traded to the Dodgers, so no draft pick compensation is attached.

 

you are correct. 


#51 Dantes929

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:13 AM

Still not sure why Cobb is not higher on everyone's list and Cole is so high.They have almost identical numbers career wise and Cobb's were better last year. Cobb also pitches in the AL East while Cole is a National Leaguer which just makes me discount him by 10%. I would be ok with the package mentioned for Cole though.I don''t know that I want to add more than one starter because I think at least two of Gonsalves, Romero, Mejia and May will be very good by mid season. Twins didn't get better in 2017 by adding a lot of guys.They did it by guys playing better and developing.I like to see that trend continue.

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#52 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:23 AM

I'd prefer that the Twins keep their prospects, let the current core of Buxton, Kepler, Polanco, etc. get another year of experience, see if they are the real deal, see if Sano is going to ever be healthy. Use $ to sign a couple of mid-level pitchers, sort thru all the AAA starters, then next winter make a big trade. Or even at the trade deadline this summer, if the Twins are in contention.

Keep the prospects, spend $ to improve, let the prospects get experience, THEN make a big trade splash to get over the hump.


To realize that puts Sano and Buxton another year closer to free agency? Eventually you have to try to win.
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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#53 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:25 AM

I'm a fan of just signing Arrieta. I know there are some concerns health-wise but he's got less mileage on his arm than most because of his slow development and all he costs is a second round pick. He also seems like a guy you can get for four years instead of going five or six. That contract might be rough the last year but that's the risk you take.


My least favorite option. Just not a believer
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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#54 gunnarthor

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:29 AM

 

My least favorite option. Just not a believer

Agreed. I think he's an NL pitcher only.

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#55 mudcat14

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:31 AM

 

That's probably a bit light on what it would take to get a Boras client to sign an extension. Probably closer to 4 years for $60mil.

 

I'm not so sure.$20mil is the high end for his two arb years.$20-28 for the two years that follow would be low, assuming he continues to pitch at or above his current level.However, if he has a Rotator Cuff injury, a UCL tear or Thoracic Outlet Syndrome occur in the next two years, he could only dream of that kind of money.Archer sold his arb & early FA years for a lot less than that.

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#56 Steve Lein

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:38 AM

 

I wouldn't stop the trade because of Granite but I would try to offer a different prospect. Buxton will likely miss some time this season. The Twins don't have another CF who is even close on defense. That means spending more money on the FA market, which increases the cost of the trade. 

 

Um, Rosario and Kepler say hello. They can handle it. Plenty of guys who can fill in a corner.

Edited by Steve Lein, 12 December 2017 - 11:40 AM.

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#57 dbminn

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:45 AM

 

Um, Rosario and Kepler say hello. They can handle it. Plenty of guys who can fill in a corner.

 

Not as well as Granite. And if you move one of the two, you do need a corner OF, which the Twins don't have, so it will cost more to do the deal than if you can find a different prospect to fill the space in the trade. 

 

Like I said before, I wouldn't stop the trade if it included Granite but there may be a better alternative. Maybe provide an actual OF you'd get as a FA and serve it beside the sarcasm.

Edited by dbminn, 12 December 2017 - 11:48 AM.


#58 KirbyDome89

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:46 AM

 

We might also be over estimating Cole. He has name recognition but he was decidedly average last year and only threw 116 ml innings the year before. He can eat innings but his era and fip weren't great. What do we think we're getting for his two years?

I think the name is carrying a lot of weight in this instance. Don't get me wrong, he's a clear upgrade over anything they have right now, but only having him for 2 years is tough. It depends on what they would have to give up for archer but 4 years at least gets them to the FA years of Buxton, Sano, ect. 

 

Cole for 2 years is easier to swallow if by some miracle they decide to spend $$ and get Darvish. 

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#59 T_J

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:57 AM

 

Cole makes sense, but If I was talking to the Pirates, it makes more sense to package him with MacCutchen and Rivero. Here is what I proposed.

 

That trade would be near dream come true. It would sting, but it seems really close to reasonable by both sides. One thing that I wouldn't be sure about is Krililoff. I know around here we seem to adore our hometown kids, but I don't see that in other places as often. 


#60 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:59 AM

 

I'm a fan of just signing Arrieta. I know there are some concerns health-wise but he's got less mileage on his arm than most because of his slow development and all he costs is a second round pick. He also seems like a guy you can get for four years instead of going five or six. That contract might be rough the last year but that's the risk you take.

I agree with you regarding the cost of Arrieta, however...

Arrieta makes me a little nervous. His 2015 was great, but his ERA, FIP and WHIP went up in 2016 and again this past season. His BABIP went down from .345 in 2016 to .298 last year and those other number still went up.

I know he'll only be 32 next season, but I find those three stats unsettling.

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