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Jack Morris Elected to Hall of Fame

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#1 jimmer

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 05:46 PM

Along with Alan Trammel.Congrats to them both.

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#2 jud6312

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:03 PM

I just don't understand how a guy with a 3.90 ERA, 0 Cy Youngs, and virtually none of the "milestone" numbers gets in. Congrats, I guess, but I just don't see it.

 

And, yes, I remember '91. But this postseason "domination" that everyone remembers so fondly? 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA.

 

 

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#3 jimmer

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:20 PM

 

I just don't understand how a guy with a 3.90 ERA, 0 Cy Youngs, and virtually none of the "milestone" numbers gets in. Congrats, I guess, but I just don't see it.

 

And, yes, I remember '91. But this postseason "domination" that everyone remembers so fondly? 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA.

I don't think Morris deserves it either, but I still congratulate him anyway.

 

Wish Whitaker had made the ballot and got it with his double play partner.

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#4 mudcat14

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:22 PM

Overdue!

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#5 nicksaviking

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:25 PM

I did not see that coming for Morris. Trammel had gotten most of the post ballot love, I thought there was more of a divide on Morris.

Awesome news, good for Jack.

#6 Thrylos

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:45 PM

Good for them.They might now put a premium to their autographs.

 

I just don't get the need for a back door to the hall of fame.

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#7 Bill Brown69

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 07:14 PM

http://www.espn.com/...n-era-committee

 

Why I the first to pick up this??

 

Edited by Bill Brown69, 10 December 2017 - 07:15 PM.

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#8 Monkeypaws

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 07:18 PM

Wait what?! Hell yeah Bill Brown!


#9 USAFChief

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 10:17 PM

Congrats to both of them.

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#10 Platoon

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 05:27 AM

I still believe that the Game 7 performance was the single best individual one I have witnessed. I always felt that he fought the home plate umpire all night over the corners, virtually daring him not to call it a strike. To me it seemed almost a battle of wills, which Morris eventually won. I doubt I will ever experience such intensity in an athletic setting again. Everything was aligned just so.
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#11 rikker49

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 06:07 AM

Morris had the most WINS of any pitcher in the entire decade of the 80's. 3 World Series rings/3 different teams. Ace of those teams. Bulldog. '91 Game 7. Yeah, he deserves it. Congrats Jack!

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#12 Bill Brown69

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 07:46 AM

The reality on Jack's case is 14 consecutive opening day starts for 3 different teams. All 3 of those teams won a World Series. 

 

Normal logic says you put your best pitcher out on opening day so he must have been viewed as the best pitcher for 14 years and 4 World Series winning teams.

 

Then there is that whole Game 7 thing. Sometimes a moment is big enough for a career.

 

Jack is by no means the best player in the Hall, but he is not even close to the worst either. He probably isn't the worst going in this year.

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#13 Tom Froemming

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:24 AM

Congrats to him and his family. My only problem with Morris getting in is now you have about 50 extra dudes who now have a very strong case that they should be HoFers. I shared this on Twitter last night, here's some JAWS scores of just some Twins pitchers who were ranked above Morris:

 

Luis Tiant 55.7

Johan Santana 48.1

Jim Kaat 44.9

Frank Viola 44.4

Kenny Rogers 43.5

Brad Radke 40.9

Bartolo Colon 40.4

Camilo Pascual 39.9

Jack Morris 38.4

 

You get some much different results when looking at Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor, which only places Kaat above Morris. Neither metric is perfect but both provide some context, and no matter how you slice it, Morris going in lowers the bar in some respects. A lot of pitchers on the outside looking in saying "if he got in why not me?"

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#14 ashburyjohn

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 08:41 AM

Congrats to him and his family. My only problem with Morris getting in is now you have about 50 extra dudes who now have a very strong case that they should be HoFers.

Baseball should be celebrating its great players more, not less.

 

I'm in favor of a "big" HoF, and then a new Inner Circle that is more restrictive than the current Hall, which would recognize the current way we think of the hierarchy within the Hall anyway. It wouldn't eliminate arguments, but would frame the arguments in a more positive way for the game.

 

Until such a day, welcome to the Pantheon, Alan and Jack!

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#15 gunnarthor

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:02 AM

 

Congrats to him and his family. My only problem with Morris getting in is now you have about 50 extra dudes who now have a very strong case that they should be HoFers. I shared this on Twitter last night, here's some JAWS scores of just some Twins pitchers who were ranked above Morris:

 

Luis Tiant 55.7

Johan Santana 48.1

Jim Kaat 44.9

Frank Viola 44.4

Kenny Rogers 43.5

Brad Radke 40.9

Bartolo Colon 40.4

Camilo Pascual 39.9

Jack Morris 38.4

 

You get some much different results when looking at Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor, which only places Kaat above Morris. Neither metric is perfect but both provide some context, and no matter how you slice it, Morris going in lowers the bar in some respects. A lot of pitchers on the outside looking in saying "if he got in why not me?"

And as I've pointed out before, fip based WAR has Morris much higher as well with guys like Hubbel and Palmer. I don't think Morris "lowers the bar" (although we'll see a few articles about that in the next few days) any more than Andre Dawson did. Morris' HOF candidacy was its own narrative, not always about the player himself. 

 

Morris and Trammell are actually fairly close HOF cases - both had 7 4+ WAR seasons (Morris in 16 seasons, Trammell in 18), career WAR totals are within margin of error of each other, neither would be in the upper half of their position in the hall but neither would be the worst. Admittedly, pitching standards have been held higher than any other position by the hall voters. Neither won any major regular season awards but both have a WS MVP. And the 80s as a decade have been underrepresented by hall voters so it's good to see them both in. 

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#16 gunnarthor

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:05 AM

Bummer for Simmons. His election will help Mauer down the road.

 

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#17 nicksaviking

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:11 AM

On the main ballot, a lower percentage of all players who played MLB baseball get in now than they did 30-40-50-60 years ago. There is 33% more players playing MLB baseball today than in 1968 and 47% more than in 1960, yet it seems the exclusivity standards didn't really change.

 

They didn't change despite the fact that the players getting in when these exclusivity standards were created weren't even playing in an integrated game, meaning they were missing out on playing some of the best competition yet setting the bar for everyone who eventually would.

 

I agree with the bigger Hall approach. 

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#18 Don Walcott

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:35 AM

I'm very happy for both Jack and Trammel. They are both very important players from that era, which is underrepresented. I especially like that HOFers from their era were voting on them and their peers.

 

I already read a sour grapes article by Jay Jaffe. He and others are so wed to their own systems of thinking that they can't see the forest for the trees. It's not "new school" v. "old school". We're all fans, and maybe we value different things or see things differently. Get over it.

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#19 PDX Twin

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:38 AM

IMHO, the HOF should not be just about statistics. It should be about which human beings should be recognized for extraordinary achievement on the baseball field. On one side, baseball is a game of numbers; one the other side it's a game of stories.

 

Morris had multiple extraordinary achievements and the 1991 Game 7 was a historic performance, the kind that creates a memorable story for all of us who could bear to keep our eyes open to watch it.

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It's great to get out of the cellar ... as long as you bring something with you.


#20 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 09:45 AM

On the main ballot, a lower percentage of all players who played MLB baseball get in now than they did 30-40-50-60 years ago. There is 33% more players playing MLB baseball today than in 1968 and nearly 47% more than in 1960, yet it seems the exclusivity standards didn't really change.

They didn't change despite the fact that the players getting in when these exclusivity standards were created weren't even playing in an integrated game, meaning they were missing out on playing some of the best competition yet setting the bar for everyone who eventually would.

I agree with the bigger Hall approach.


But when you expand and add more players, you are adding to the bottom, not the top. So it shouldn't affect how many guys get in.
If you contracted 15 teams right now, not a single player hitting the road ever had a chance if being an HOF.
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