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Article: Twins Acquire Two Prospects For International Bonus Money

david banuelos shohei ohtani jelfry marte jacob pearson
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#81 drjim

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:15 PM

One other thing I found out digging into this is that if the Twins sign Marte after voiding a previous contract he is immediately eligible for the Rule 5 draft if not placed on the 40 man roster.

 

I also found out I was incorrect. The contract was voided, so it must have been signed before the physical. I figured there would be an agreement a contract would be subject to a physical.

Papers...business papers.

#82 drjim

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:17 PM

https://www.baseball...45jAmJH5j1et.97

 

This is the comparable. Cardinals voided a contract with Wagner Mateo in 2009, he later signed with Arizona and flamed out pretty quickly.

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Papers...business papers.

#83 Brandon

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:25 PM

I was hoping we could use those funds to help aquire a reliever. we probably woukd need to add a propect too. but....

I agree with John and am glad they were drafted this year. Pearson appears to be the Angels version of Enlow. getting a player who dropped for signability issues. The Catcher is the new Stewart for our org. nice glove no hit catcher.
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#84 drjim

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:28 PM

Twins official on Banuelos:

 

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Papers...business papers.

#85 gunnarthor

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:52 PM

 

The Marte situation reminds me of the Brady Aiken situation a few years ago when everyone was ripping on the Astros for trying to screw over the #1 pick and making him take a minimum deal due to "bogus" medical evaluations, then they turned out to be right as he quickly blew out his elbow. 

That's not quite right. People were pissed that the Astros were using the injury as a way to secure a third player (after Jacob Nix) named Mac Marshall out of Aiken's bonus. The medical issue they saw was similar to other picks and those picks had their bonuses lowered by several hundred thousand dollars, not 1.5m, which coincidentally happened to be Marshall's demand. Nix and Marshall's agreements were therefore locked into a third party (Aiken). Nix filed his grievance against the Astros and won (Astros settled for 1m+ before the arbitrator ruled against them). 

 

I'm hoping that the Twins didn't **** over Marte on the hopes of getting a better prospect but I think they did. 


#86 Dman

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:59 PM

 

 

I'm hoping that the Twins didn't **** over Marte on the hopes of getting a better prospect but I think they did. 

 

But if that theory were true and Marte such an excellent player then why haven't teams jumped on signing him?To me the theory the Twins were less than honest doesn't make sense at all.If he is good and there really is no medical issue some team should have him by now.So far crickets.

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#87 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:13 PM

 

I'm with you on the optics of this. I am in the camp generally hoping they don't sign him; I don't want questions about "my" team putting the squeeze on players financially. The news about "no hard feelings on either side" suggests it could happen though.

 

 

The fact that there aren't any hard feelings, should be evidence that the team was not putting the squeeze on him.

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#88 KirbyDome89

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:26 PM

 

I'm with you on the optics of this. I am in the camp generally hoping they don't sign him; I don't want questions about "my" team putting the squeeze on players financially. The news about "no hard feelings on either side" suggests it could happen though.

 

When the news of the contract voiding broke, the Baseball America article mentioned a similar case from about a decade ago; a different team signed him for half a million instead, and afterward his career quietly fizzled. I don't hope for bad luck like that for this player, but it's a way this could end up playing out.

Agreed the optics are certainly complicating the matter. If Marte does resign it'll raise more questions. Obviously it's all conjecture at this point but: 

 

Why would the Twins be interested in resigning him if the eye condition is as serious as others are convinced it is? If they're certain he won't be a big league player why waste the remaining money resigning him? 

 

I can't get past the timing; the apparent non release of the contract being voided and the announcement for the availability of the money coinciding with Ohtani making his way to the states just seems odd. 

 

If the Twins are going to resign him doesn't that hint that the eye condition might not have been as disastrous as portrayed? If that's the case can the actions of the Twins be viewed as some sort of tampering? Marte's value clearly would have been affected and potentially the reason other clubs have been hesitant to sign him. It's clearly the most sinister scenario but is it the craziest thing in the world to think a team would sacrifice a player like Marte in order to have a shot at Ohtani? 

 

Another part I can't get past though is that if Ohtani had decided to come to MN this wouldn't have been an issue. Even if the Twins had f***ed this kid over the Ohtani signing would have overshadowed anything done to get him here. I can't I wouldn't have overlooked it myself. 

 

Or you know, it could just be a condition the Twins aren't comfortable with so they decided to move on, i.e. business as usual. 


#89 ashburyjohn

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:33 PM

The fact that there aren't any hard feelings, should be evidence that the team was not putting the squeeze on him.

Assuming words match feelings. :) If he's getting good advice, he may understand that the $3M is gone, but high six-figures may be attainable if he doesn't burn bridges. That realization wouldn't erase a feeling of having been squeezed.

 

I don't know either way. I just don't read much into that statement.

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#90 spycake

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:42 PM

But if that theory were true and Marte such an excellent player then why haven't teams jumped on signing him? To me the theory the Twins were less than honest doesn't make sense at all. If he is good and there really is no medical issue some team should have him by now. So far crickets.


Well, I don't know how long Marte has been available -- when exactly was the contract voided? And the international market has shrunk/slowed considerably this time of year , so perhaps Marte can take his time deciding. I mean, if he just had a $3 mil deal voided, he may not have much incentive to jump on the first $1 mil offer. (In theory, could he even take his chances next July?)

#91 Twins33

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:45 PM

Anybody know when it was voided? The Twins signed him back in July, and international cap numbers were discussed throughout the rest of the season.

i can't find the tweet, but I believe it was Wolfson who said that Marte came for a physical at the end of Sept and that is when he failed. And then later, I think in November, is when it was all of a sudden reported that the Twins had 3+ million and no one questioned why they had so much since they supposedly had signed Marte.

Then it was reported that it was voided and someone said it was his vision.
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#92 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:59 PM

 

Why all the kindness for the Angels and the Mariners. We got them between the rock and the hard place. They BOTH need international bonus money in the hope of signing Ohtani and the Twins, now out of that contention, have international money to burn. Why didn't we go for the throat and put the squeeze on both of them for a better return? Seems like we could have done much better. I would like to see the ppitch package prepared by the Twins for Ohtani - Could it have been better? Can we sue him for Scandahoovian Discrimination against the Twins?

They literally traded a $1m 2017 draftee for $1m in fake money.

 

Not sure what you think they could have received that would be more significant than that.

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#93 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:01 PM

 

I figured there would be an agreement a contract would be subject to a physical.

My understanding is that pretty much all of these contracts have a "pending a physical" stipulation. They get the contract done because that's the hard part. They worry about the physical later because it's a formality the overwhelming majority of the time.

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#94 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:03 PM

 

I'm hoping that the Twins didn't **** over Marte on the hopes of getting a better prospect but I think they did. 

Given that Marte claims there's no hard feelings over the voiding of the contract, this seems unlikely.

 

If the Twins were pulling a fast one and trying to get away with something, it seems to me Marte would have a lot of ill will toward the organization, not brush off the voided contract and say he's open to signing at a reduced amount.

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#95 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:05 PM

 

Assuming words match feelings. :) If he's getting good advice, he may understand that the $3M is gone, but high six-figures may be attainable if he doesn't burn bridges. That realization wouldn't erase a feeling of having been squeezed.

 

I don't know either way. I just don't read much into that statement.

The thing is that there are teams with more than high six figures in international money. If the Twins screwed him over, he would have plenty of other suitors. He was a $3m signing. If nothing is wrong with him, he could easily find another team to give him 1/3rd that money or more.

 

Remember that the Twins just dealt $2m to other teams, at least one of which won't get Ohtani and will be sitting on a pile of cash. If Marte is just fine and everything is no big deal, that org would be insane not to offer him everything they have and get him in the organization.

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#96 ashburyjohn

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:13 PM

The thing is that there are teams with more than high six figures in international money. If the Twins screwed him over, he would have plenty of other suitors. He was a $3m signing. If nothing is wrong with him, he could easily find another team to give him 1/3rd that money or more.

 

Remember that the Twins just dealt $2m to other teams, at least one of which won't get Ohtani and will be sitting on a pile of cash. If Marte is just fine and everything is no big deal, that org would be insane not to offer him everything they have and get him in the organization.

Ok, but this is somewhat conflating pool limits with green dollars.

 

In the case previously mentioned where the Cardinals voided a $3M contract due to vision issues, the kid wound up signing for $500K with Arizona. Obviously this doesn't define anything for Marte, but indicates what can happen to teams' forecasts of future value in light of a bad vision report. Pool dollars may get passed around, but when actual dollars are spent there are many things that can spoil the deal.

If the first person on the phone can't answer your question, it's a bureaucracy.


#97 Twins33

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:16 PM

I don't know where to put this so I'm putting it here:

http://www.startribu...itan/462600173/

"Multiple sources have confirmed that the Twins were in the hunt for Maitan, considered the top international prospect in 2016 when he signed with the Braves in for $4.25 million. He's a switch hitting shortstop with a strong arm and good power potential. According to MLB.com, some early comparisons were to Miguel Sano.

Maitan signed with the Angels for a reported $2.2 million. Indications are that the Twins offered significantly more than Los Angeles. But someone in Maitan's camp, either Maitan, his family, his agents or a combination of all of them, looked at the Twins farm system and decided to go elsewhere."

There is also more words on the two new guys under the link.

Edited by Twins33, 07 December 2017 - 02:19 PM.

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#98 Tom Froemming

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:18 PM

 

But if I was Maitan I don't think I'd want to come here unless the Twins were able to overpay, given the glut of shortstops in the system. 

La Velle just confirmed that was exactly the case. Maitan took less to go to the Angels. 


#99 drjim

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:18 PM

LEN3 reports that the Twins actually offered more than the Angels for Maitan:

 

http://www.startribu...itan/462600173/

 

Money quote:

 

 

Maitan signed with the Angels for a reported $2.2 million. Indications are that the Twins offered significantly more than Los Angeles. But someone in Maitan's camp, either Maitan, his family, his agents or a combination of all of them, looked at the Twins farm system and decided to go elsewhere.

 

Also, this tease:

 

 

And they are not done. I've been told that they like their chances to of signing one of the former Braves players who were declared free agents recently. Not as highly regarded as Maitan, but someone they like. So stay tuned.

 

Papers...business papers.

#100 drjim

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:19 PM

And you all beat me to it.

Papers...business papers.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: david banuelos, shohei ohtani, jelfry marte, jacob pearson