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Article: The Twins Should Be Shopping Ervin Santana

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#121 KirbyDome89

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 09:54 AM

 

Any plans on doing an add one and subtract one scenario doesn't address anything. Add two - subtract one alright.

Darvish for Ervin addresses the need for front end pitching. 


#122 kab21

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 06:01 PM

 

Darvish for Ervin addresses the need for front end pitching

You addressed one need but there are many more. Gibson/Mejia/? in the 3/4/5 spots is a dreadfully awful rotation to enter the season. If the Twins are so crunched for payroll then a different plan needs to be made.

Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Offseason (noun) - a time to propose trades assuming opposing GM's can't do the same basic analysis


#123 Shane Wahl

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 06:42 PM

The Twins do not have enough guaranteed solid starting pitchers to even remotely consider this. I am very confused by this argument. 

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#124 Shane Wahl

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 06:43 PM

On what planet is this an option given how emergent the team is right now? What the what?

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#125 KirbyDome89

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 08:35 PM

 

You addressed one need but there are many more. Gibson/Mejia/? in the 3/4/5 spots is a dreadfully awful rotation to enter the season. If the Twins are so crunched for payroll then a different plan needs to be made.

They aren't bringing in 3 quality pitchers, relief help, a 4th OF bat, ect in one offseason. Money comes off the books after this season and ditto after 19' so the "crunch," isn't long lived. It's a creative way to bring in a front end starter now rather than bank on winning the Kershaw sweepstakes next season or wait until 2020 or beyond. 


#126 kab21

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 11:28 PM

 

They aren't bringing in 3 quality pitchers, relief help, a 4th OF bat, ect in one offseason. Money comes off the books after this season and ditto after 19' so the "crunch," isn't long lived. It's a creative way to bring in a front end starter now rather than bank on winning the Kershaw sweepstakes next season or wait until 2020 or beyond. 

They don't need to bring in 3 quality starters. They need to add 1 or 2 instead of add one and subtract one. There is absolutely no way the Twins can start the season with 3 pitchers like Gibson/Mejia/? in the rotation. Start the season with 1-2 of those guys is progress though. Any plan that necessitates that action needs to be redone.

 

And you are partially creating this payroll problem. If the FO/ownership is serious about contending this year or next then they need to increase payroll instead of running this team like Metrodome Twins. And as you say the 'crunch' isn't long lived.

Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Offseason (noun) - a time to propose trades assuming opposing GM's can't do the same basic analysis


#127 KirbyDome89

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 02:37 PM

 

They don't need to bring in 3 quality starters. They need to add 1 or 2 instead of add one and subtract one. There is absolutely no way the Twins can start the season with 3 pitchers like Gibson/Mejia/? in the rotation. Start the season with 1-2 of those guys is progress though. Any plan that necessitates that action needs to be redone.

 

And you are partially creating this payroll problem. If the FO/ownership is serious about contending this year or next then they need to increase payroll instead of running this team like Metrodome Twins. And as you say the 'crunch' isn't long lived.

Upgrading the front of the rotation is progress. The Twins need front end help. Maybe you disagree, but I can't see them making noise in the postseason with it. The article presumes the Twins operate under a tight cap as they have the past few seasons. IMO it's easier to build the back of a rotation than the front. If they have the opportunity to bring in a guy like Darvish then I think they have to take it, even if that means trading Ervin. As I said, Mauer and Dozier are off the books after next season, and Hughes follows shortly after. Next offseason is Kershaw of bust in terms of big arms so good luck to the Twins winning that war. If they're waiting until 2020 to find help Buxton, Sano, ect are hitting arbitration and two years w/o front end help have passed. Losing Ervin and not bringing in anybody certainly doesn't help the rest of the rotation, but I would rather go 1 year without high/elite level pitching as opposed to 2+. Who knows, maybe they could make a move to bring on an cheap, unspectacular, but semi reliable starter along with Darvish. All of this of course hinges on the Twins actually being a big player in FA, which I have next to no confidence will occur. 

 

I don't know why you're so hung up on spending. Again, NOBODY is saying don't increase payroll. NOBODY wants to trade Ervin. The article was a plan B in the event ownership decides not to make drastic changes regarding the payroll. If you'll be upset if the payroll doesn't bump up significantly this offseason I'll be right there with you. 


#128 Doomtints

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:57 PM

 

I don't know why you're so hung up on spending. Again, NOBODY is saying don't increase payroll. NOBODY wants to trade Ervin. 

 

I dunno man. I have seen the "Trade Santana" argument ever since he first put on a Twins uniform, and I have seen countless people argue against raising payroll for years.

 

We should:

- Want to keep the best players we can, if possible, and

- Not worry about the price.

 

Fans don't need to be making these types of tough decisions, or concern ourselves with them!

Sure, we should be realistic on what this team can do, but we often cross over into defending the team.




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