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Article: Sho Time: Could The Twins Really Land Ohtani?

shohei ohtani
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#41 laloesch

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 04:39 PM

Yes, I tell him that he can expect to play 50 games at DH with additional pinch hitting time. He can play more if he can outhit Robbie Grossman.


I would think you would have to attach some conditions to this. If the guy can't flat out hit MLB pitching they have to have some sort of cutoff. Sorry we can't have a black hole in the order that puts the team at a disadvantage against all AL teams.

#42 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 05:27 PM

The concept of landing both Darvish and Ohtani is too much to take in. I'd probably have a heart attack and die. I like living, so I guess I am against it. :) 

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#43 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 05:53 PM

 

The concept of landing both Darvish and Ohtani is too much to take in. I'd probably have a heart attack and die. I like living, so I guess I am against it. :)

 

I like you Bark, but I cannot root against this. so... :)

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#44 USNMCPO

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:21 PM

I still think the International signing money will be used as a trade option.


#45 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:54 PM

I would think you would have to attach some conditions to this. If the guy can't flat out hit MLB pitching they have to have some sort of cutoff. Sorry we can't have a black hole in the order that puts the team at a disadvantage against all AL teams.


I think you are not giving him enough credit as a pitcher. Getting him would be a jackpot. If it takes 50 games of a guy barely cracking .600 OPS to get him, oh well, I'll take it.

Look at it this way, he'll be conservatively a 4+ WAR player, more likely (IMO), a 6+ WAR player. Even if his bat is putrid for 50 games, it'll likely only subtract 1 WAR at worst, likely less. No brainer, IMO.

#46 kab21

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:57 PM

 

I would think you would have to attach some conditions to this. If the guy can't flat out hit MLB pitching they have to have some sort of cutoff. Sorry we can't have a black hole in the order that puts the team at a disadvantage against all AL teams.

yeah, 50 games cutoff... I am sure that he is a grown up and will understand that if he is hitting .600ish OPS that the team is better off with Grossman and his .750 OPS.

Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

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#47 Old Twins Cap

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:13 PM

I'm following this, I know the Yankees.

 

I think we have a real shot.Here's why:

 

1.Ohtani is a young man who does not subscribe to conventional thinking:not in the way he plays -- wanting to swing both ways (arf), and in leaving Japan before it was financially advantageous.Like, he's different.

 

2.New York has very high expectations, huge, with media overkill and constant buzz, if not CRAZY pressure to perform.So, here's this 23-year-old kid trying to do something that hasn't been done in the modern era.Is New York really the right place for this?The pressure, the need for success -- not just on him, but the new manager, Cashman, the Steinbrenners.Bad scene, it really is for Ohtani.

 

3.And, who is the new manager in New York?Really?Going to negotiate and sign a world-class Japanese two-way player and you don't have a manager right now?It is what it is, but, that does not impress.

 

4.Minnesota, for all its little warts, needs a DH and an Ace pitcher, just so happens.If I am that kid, I say:"They're young, they're rising, they need me, I have opportunity to establish myself in two-way credentials."Bad English, comme ci, comme ca, but, I think Ohtani wants the right fit, in a myriad of ways.

 

5.Price is not a factor.This kid wants success, he wants to play baseball.He understands that at 23, that's what matters.Make your fate in the world's great game, and you will eclipse the sun and live happily ever after.Play it safe and be a decent pitcher for the Yankees and you will live forever wondering, "what if"...

 

Twins got a chance here.I consider them the favorites, after Mariners.

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#48 tvagle

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:51 PM

Your 2018 New York Yankees Manager

 

nyymgr

 

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#49 sploorp

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:06 PM

 

Nothing wrong with a little hope. The national media is saying NY is the favorite, but there's really nothing but speculation to base it on (money plus lore). Ohtani is, without question, pursuing something other than money for this, which is what would normally make NY the favorite.

A huge chunk of the media is based out of New York, so that could be a big part of the reason the national press is saying it.  The Yankees also won't be able to throw crazy money and years at this one like they usually do, so there is that too.  I can't say the Twins are going to land him, but the more I think about this thing, the more I think he won't be playing for the Yankees either.

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#50 Thrylos

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:12 PM

 

“Why do you build me up (build me up) buttercup, baby
Just to let me down (let me down) and mess me around”

 

Wonderful to see a true rendition of the oft messed up Foundations' lyrics.

Methinks the next stanza is more appropriate for the discussion in hand:

 

And then worst of all
(Worst of all)
You never call, baby
When you say you will
(Say you will)
But I love you still

 

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#51 Thrylos

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:14 PM

 

I don't think anyone's going to expect a 23-year-old with zero MLB experience to be their "de facto ace" right off the bat. But Ohtani might appreciate walking into a situation where he could potentially earn that label with relative ease. 

 

Ahem.Remember when Berrios was in AAA in 2016 and 2017?

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#52 Nick Nelson

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:13 PM

Yes?
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#53 DaveW

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:32 PM

 

Yes?

Yeah pretty much this. 

The idea that he would be under pressure because he was the 'best' pitcher on the Twins roster is a little silly.

If they bring in Ohtani and no one else, I'm pretty 99.999% sure they give Santana opening day 'ace' start if he is healthy.

There are a lot of reasons why Ohtani may not sign here, him being afraid of being the highest upside pitcher on the 2018 opening day roster seems like a stretch... 

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#54 drjim

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 08:29 AM

It's been mentioned and not exactly controversial, but my guess is the Mariners. Good match of player, need and culture (both in the org and in the city).

Papers...business papers.

#55 Jham

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 08:49 AM

Personally, I have a few reservations regarding Ohtani.The guy seems to have a huge sense of entitlement.It makes me wonder how coachable he'll be, and what sort of a team mate.I have huge concerns about how he'll deal with adversity and real struggle.It seems like he's coming in expecting things to be easy.$20 million is a relatively small investment for a talent with that upside.At the same time, we're entering an important stretch for our organization.$20 mil can go to a big FA, a number of useful pieces, absorbing a contract in a beneficial trade, or extending a current or potential trade piece.I'd be looking hard right now while everyone else is chasing the hype train.  

BTW, asking teams to write you love letters does not scream, "I want the small market and quiet life."But I will say, he'd instantly be one of the biggest and most loved celebrities in Minnesota if he came here.  


#56 kab21

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:18 AM

 

Personally, I have a few reservations regarding Ohtani.The guy seems to have a huge sense of entitlement.It makes me wonder how coachable he'll be, and what sort of a team mate.I have huge concerns about how he'll deal with adversity and real struggle.It seems like he's coming in expecting things to be easy.$20 million is a relatively small investment for a talent with that upside.At the same time, we're entering an important stretch for our organization.$20 mil can go to a big FA, a number of useful pieces, absorbing a contract in a beneficial trade, or extending a current or potential trade piece.I'd be looking hard right now while everyone else is chasing the hype train.  

BTW, asking teams to write you love letters does not scream, "I want the small market and quiet life."But I will say, he'd instantly be one of the biggest and most loved celebrities in Minnesota if he came here.  

$20M signs a big FA for one season. Ohtani is under team control for 6 seasons that includes 3 arb controlled seasons.

Do you have any sources of this entitlement?

Ohtani is arguably the best Japanese pitcher (due to his younger age and high performance) and probably the 2nd best player (behind Ichiro) to ever come to the majors. I am not sure what you expect him to do that is different than he is doing.

I will disagree with the other poster above about Seattle. It would be a very good choice but don't they only have 500K in cap room. I understand that he is forgoing a lot of money coming over this season but that is a pretty significant gap between what a few other teams can offer.

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#57 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:32 AM

 

Personally, I have a few reservations regarding Ohtani.The guy seems to have a huge sense of entitlement.It makes me wonder how coachable he'll be, and what sort of a team mate.I have huge concerns about how he'll deal with adversity and real struggle.It seems like he's coming in expecting things to be easy.$20 million is a relatively small investment for a talent with that upside.At the same time, we're entering an important stretch for our organization.$20 mil can go to a big FA, a number of useful pieces, absorbing a contract in a beneficial trade, or extending a current or potential trade piece.I'd be looking hard right now while everyone else is chasing the hype train.  

BTW, asking teams to write you love letters does not scream, "I want the small market and quiet life."But I will say, he'd instantly be one of the biggest and most loved celebrities in Minnesota if he came here.  

I really don't get the same vibe you do about 'entitlement.' What specifically gives you that impression? And I disagree about the letters ... strongly ... I don't think it screams small or big market. What is screams to me is ... I want all the information you can give me about your organization and your facilities and your philosophy and your development and your coaches ... I want every, single detail in order to make the best decision for myself. And that the instructions specifically said not to include any monetary information whatsoever. While that's still a long way from thinking Minnesota might or might not have a shot at him, I don't find that one bit 'entitled.' Now, he might be ... I really don't know. I've not read one single thing about about him that would point me to that conclusion. If you have read something, please share it. The more information we all have makes for more interesting discussion.

 

As for where he might want to land, I really don't know. That's why this is all so intriguing and why it's difficult for me to keep my even keel going. If he were all about the money, wouldn't it have been smarter to wait a couple years and enter as a free agent and may the highest bidder win? So I'm wondering ... how important is the money to him? It would seem it's not the first priority which is another reason why what everything else a specific team has to offer is. And why I wouldn't rule out Seattle just because they have less pool money. But I don't know. Maybe he'll take the most he can get at this time. I just don't know. And it makes me crazy! :) That's my take.

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#58 Vanimal46

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:32 AM

 

Personally, I have a few reservations regarding Ohtani.The guy seems to have a huge sense of entitlement.It makes me wonder how coachable he'll be, and what sort of a team mate.I have huge concerns about how he'll deal with adversity and real struggle.It seems like he's coming in expecting things to be easy.$20 million is a relatively small investment for a talent with that upside.At the same time, we're entering an important stretch for our organization.$20 mil can go to a big FA, a number of useful pieces, absorbing a contract in a beneficial trade, or extending a current or potential trade piece.I'd be looking hard right now while everyone else is chasing the hype train.  

BTW, asking teams to write you love letters does not scream, "I want the small market and quiet life."But I will say, he'd instantly be one of the biggest and most loved celebrities in Minnesota if he came here.  

 

I would suggest watching the 60 Minutes interview with Ohtani back in April. Any preconceptions you have about him and entitlement would be eliminated. He's a very humble person that lives in a modest dorm in Japan, so I'm not sure why you feel he has a huge sense of entitlement?

 

What teams has he asked to write him love letters? You mean when his agent asked how a team would use him? That's kind of important to him, since he is coming over early and missing out on nearly $100 million to be a 2-way player.... 

 

Honestly I think you're way off base on Ohtani.

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#59 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 12:05 PM

I have no idea what he's like. But, allegedly, one of the questions on the questionnaire was literally , "do you like me?". I hope that's just a weird lost in translation things, because otherwise that's a bit of a red flag.

#60 Pardon My Dinger

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 12:31 PM

I have no idea what he's like. But, allegedly, one of the questions on the questionnaire was literally , "do you like me?".


That is impossible to believe. Pretty sure the question is “what do you like about me?” That’s a different, non yes/no answer, question.
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