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Article: Supplementing the Twins: A Bat for Hire

minnesota twins carlos santana todd frazier jose bautista
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#21 Seth Stohs

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 12:11 PM

I can't understand this thinking that there is any chance that the Twins might be a realistic option for Carlos Santana.

 

While I think the Twins would be willing to pay Santana, why would Cleveland not be willing to match that offer, and then why would he leave them to join the Twins. 

 

That's not an anti-Twins take, but I do think it's realistic.

 

Unless the Twins are willing to way-overpay for Santana, I think he'd stay "home." And if overpaying is what it takes... that's generally not a good idea.

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#22 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 12:24 PM

I'm just more of the opinion that Santana makes zero sense to this club. Minnesota makes zero sense to Santana too. They already have a good offense, not to mention a 1B for next year at the least and possibly longer (and quite possibly a nice one in Rooker as well).

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#23 jimmer

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 12:26 PM

 

I'm just more of the opinion that Santana makes zero sense to this club. Minnesota makes zero sense to Santana too. They already have a good offense, not to mention a 1B for next year at the least and possibly longer (and quite possibly a nice one in Rooker as well).

This

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#24 Shaitan

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 01:45 PM

I'd take Santana on a short-term deal, maybe Bautista fo $1 to PH. Frazier? Zero interest. 


#25 Timtwinsfan

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 01:59 PM

I'm speculating many of you, including the author don't watch other teams. Someone mentioned Frazer. So let's score these players, Frazer is a D player, power, terrible at bats. Santana, C-, a player who did what most do in their contract year, respectable. Vargas, for sure D, like one guy said, he's just not a good MLB player. The FA market is filled with "C" players that teams will overpay so people who don't follow baseball will think the team is trying to get good players whereby the GM is just trying to save his job. Why do you think they released Palka, Twins Trivia, how many teams has Adam Brett Walker been with? How about an on base guy, someone if you needed a bat who took walks, good singles hitter, go long in the count. You remember those players? Why pay 8 mill to a .220 hitter with 28.697% strikeouts?


#26 bobs

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 02:15 PM

I'm biased.I've always liked Santana.Not sure of the fit.I think he's a better short-term fit than long term, assuming Sano moves to 1B after Mauer's contract runs out in '18.Also likely going to get a 3-yr deal from an AL team. 

This team proved more than adequate offensively, so my first reaction is every dime should be spent on pitching. 

Hate to say it, but Frazier may be the better short term fit b/c he can play 3B if Sano isn't ready.If Sano is ready to hit in April but not field, he can DH.Frazier could also DH and of course adds the RH bat this lineup needs.


#27 Lee-The-Twins-Fan

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 02:55 PM

It's not that I wouldn't like to get almost any of these guys, but i doubt it will happen. We need a pitching ace, two relievers (including a closer), and maybe a back-up catcher. Yes, a right-handed bat who could play 3B might be desired. But not over the other needs. By the time the Twins are ready to acquire a RH bat, they will have already acquired a starting pitcher 9or two) and a couple relievers. That will leave precious little left to spend tens of millions of dollars on Santana, Frasier, Bautista, or any other high-value RH bat. It just won't happen. They may set their sights on a lower-cost alternative, but likely none of the big four.


#28 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 04:01 PM

I think it's a little easy to be harsh on Kennys Vargas.

Everybody wants the David Ortiz of 2016, but this is where Kennys ranks in the stats among the 23 players who had 100 PA or more in 2017 as DH:

 

wRC+.... 10th

OPS........ 8th

WAR........ 9th

Above average in each of these stats.

Not Chili Davis, but not Jason Tyner, either.

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#29 DocBauer

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 05:52 PM

I'd love Santana, and he'd be a great fit on most any team. But, assuming this team doesn't pony up via trade or FA for a true #1 SP...unlikely as there just aren't many available first of all...were talking, roughly, $11-15M for Lynn, Chatwood or Cobb. Add in a couple really nice bullpen arms at $5-7M each, and we're hitting $120M-ish.

Santana puts us the $130M category. Very affordable, overall, with more money coming off the books the next couple of seasons to help pay for extensions, etc. Even with a Mauer and Dozier re-sign, we end up netting additional dollars. But to jump that far, that fast toward $130+M just seems unreasonable. And I also agree that I don't think Cleveland would let him walk anyway.

Frazier? Maybe. But would he really be an upgrade over Escobar at 3B if there is a Sano playing in the field situation?

I think a good, solid, useful player for less money is really warranted. Maybe Kenrick. And while it might seem overly optimistic, if Grossman could just settle in as a player between his 2016-17 years, he could be very useful at either the top or bottom of the order.

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#30 h2oface

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 07:32 PM

Carlos had a pretty good July - August, but he was toast April through June. Sure, it can happen to anyone, but my bet is that last half year was his last hurrah. I think his slide is coming hard.


#31 rv78

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 09:16 PM

Not sure why anyone thinks Frazier would be a good acquisition. Just because he can play 3B if Sano can't is a poor reason. Escobar proved he is more than capable of filling in. In fact, in 2017 Escobar almost matched Frazier in Home Runs per AB, hit 40 points higher than Frazier, is just as capable defensively, is younger, and cheaper. 

As for Santana, why would the Indians let him go, especially to a division rival, and on top of that he isn't going to replace the Golden Boy at 1st or at DH. If Sano can't play 3B then you got too many bats vying for the 1B/DH spot.

Bautista at this point would be another dumpster dive as his BA and HR stats have declined the last 3 years. He's toast. Better to spend money elsewhere.


#32 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 09:44 PM

Not sure why anyone thinks Frazier would be a good acquisition. Just because he can play 3B if Sano can't is a poor reason. Escobar proved he is more than capable of filling in. In fact, in 2017 Escobar almost matched Frazier in Home Runs per AB, hit 40 points higher than Frazier, is just as capable defensively, is younger, and cheaper.
As for Santana, why would the Indians let him go, especially to a division rival, and on top of that he isn't going to replace the Golden Boy at 1st or at DH. If Sano can't play 3B then you got too many bats vying for the 1B/DH spot.
Bautista at this point would be another dumpster dive as his BA and HR stats have declined the last 3 years. He's toast. Better to spend money elsewhere.


Frazier is a much better defender than Escobar.
I know Escobar can play multiple positions, and that versatility is nice, but he's a well below average defender.

#33 The Wise One

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:22 AM

If you want a DH the Cubs have one that stands out in LF. I would think an outfielder and a pitcher would work in trade,


#34 Platoon

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 05:52 AM

I think it's a little easy to be harsh on Kennys Vargas.
Everybody wants the David Ortiz of 2016, but this is where Kennys ranks in the stats among the 23 players who had 100 PA or more in 2017 as DH:
 
wRC+.... 10th
OPS........ 8th
WAR........ 9th
Above average in each of these stats.
Not Chili Davis, but not Jason Tyner, either.

I would assume I am not the only one surprised by these numbers. And he gives Mauer a few days off. Sort of like the Robbie G. situation, but with some power. Hits somewhat, but the glove work makes one squeamish. EE provides temporary protection for Sano, but I imagine next summer will be the decision year on Sano. On field player? DH? Or trade for pitching? I think the Twins offense is sufficient enough to start the season somewhat as is. I like Carlos Santana, but he is not money well spent for this team, nor is Frazier.
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#35 Platoon

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 05:56 AM

This topic made me think of the Twins as a three legged stool, missing one leg. The pitching leg. You can keep adding to the other two legs all off season. But it's still gonna be missing that third leg come spring!

Edited by Platoon, 11 November 2017 - 05:59 AM.

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#36 The Wise One

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 06:44 AM

 

I think it's a little easy to be harsh on Kennys Vargas.

Everybody wants the David Ortiz of 2016, but this is where Kennys ranks in the stats among the 23 players who had 100 PA or more in 2017 as DH:

 

wRC+.... 10th

OPS........ 8th

WAR........ 9th

Above average in each of these stats.

Not Chili Davis, but not Jason Tyner, either.

Vargas's stats any other year would be 20th. For whatever reason it was a down year for DH. He was also ranked at 37 for his skills at 1B


#37 Roaddog

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 07:06 AM

I'd be ok with Bautista on a minor league deal. No interest in Frazier.

#38 rv78

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 08:10 AM

 

Frazier is a much better defender than Escobar.
I know Escobar can play multiple positions, and that versatility is nice, but he's a well below average defender.

Escobar had 6 errors in 79 games at 3B, Frazier had 13 in 133 games, very comparable. Maybe Escobar's range isn't quite as good but Frazier isn't getting any younger so his range will continue to deteriorate. 


#39 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 08:43 AM

 

I'm speculating many of you, including the author don't watch other teams. Someone mentioned Frazer. So let's score these players, Frazer is a D player, power, terrible at bats. Santana, C-, a player who did what most do in their contract year, respectable. Vargas, for sure D, like one guy said, he's just not a good MLB player. The FA market is filled with "C" players that teams will overpay so people who don't follow baseball will think the team is trying to get good players whereby the GM is just trying to save his job. Why do you think they released Palka, Twins Trivia, how many teams has Adam Brett Walker been with? How about an on base guy, someone if you needed a bat who took walks, good singles hitter, go long in the count. You remember those players? Why pay 8 mill to a .220 hitter with 28.697% strikeouts?

 

You have some interesting standards... Vargas posted a .758 OPS in his age 26 season, making him slightly better than league average with the bat. Santana was an all around better player and will likely sign a very large multi-year deal. That's not a C- guy.

 

I'll simply note that we are talking bench bats here and a part time DH. Santana will want to be a starter, so again, I don't see how Santana makes any sense to this club. I'd be fine with Vargas and/or Park sitting around as a bench bat (though I really want Mauer taking some reps at 3B and RF this spring).

 

They aren't bad options, with the only real issue being defensive flexibility. With Granite in AAA, Adrianza, and Escobar, I think we are covered if we need defense and want some offense on the bench, so long as we make sure the pen has some better options allowing Molitor to have 5 bench bats.

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#40 jimmer

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 09:59 AM

I'm hoping beyond hope the team DOESN'T put Mauer anywhere near 3B or the outfield.He's an exceptional fielder at 1B who saves the other IF (and by extension the pitching staff) and having him, at 35, try to tackle new positions would be disastrous with no benefit.

Edited by jimmer, 11 November 2017 - 10:00 AM.

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