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What can Minnesota offer Shohei Otani?

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#41 DocBauer

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 05:38 PM

He can have mine.
 
Seriously, I still have one. Actually, it's a shersey. Still. Says Nishioka on the back. Wore it a lot during the 103-loss season.


So the mystery as to the complete collapse of the 2016 bas been resolved! Shame on You! LOL

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#42 Winston Smith

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 06:02 PM

 

This is taking a valid complaint/concern (that the Twins don't spend enough) to an unserious extreme. Every team will be willing to spend $20mm to acquire him. This won't be the barrier to the Twins getting him.

Why my comment gets twisted around to a complaint about the Twins NEVER spending I don't understand. I was commenting on one instance that I don't think they will do. 

I made no mention about past or future spending just an opinion on this one player. 

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#43 Thrylos

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 06:38 PM

 

Lutefisk and spam sushi roll. The "Minnesota roll" 

 

Edit: Has to be served on a stick.

 

Nah.Has to be wrapped in lefse (butter, white sugar and all) instead of seaweed.Cream of mushroom soup drizzle and french fried onions optional.

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#44 Thrylos

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 06:50 PM

 

I was going to say that they should let him try and be a two way player...

 

That has to be played very carefully. Because we really do not know how his hitting will could translate in the majors. Last season he hit .332/.403/.540 as a 23 year old.I do know that he was nursing injuries and had a much better 2016, but...

 

The non-mentionable in his age 25 season in Japan, before he came over, hit a very comparable .346/.423/.482 that did not translate quite well in the majors.Maybe the fact that was badly injured played a role here (and went he returned to Japan his numbers were pretty pathetic, too,)but, to quote Great White, once bitten, twice shy baby.

 

That's about his hitting only. No worries whether his pitching will play.Likely the best Japanese pitcher to make it to the majors.But committing that he will hit on a regular basis, does carry a risk.

Edited by Thrylos, 10 November 2017 - 06:50 PM.

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#45 laloesch

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 07:00 PM

220px-Norway-Lutefisk-01.jpg


Covers mouth and gags.

Edited by laloesch, 10 November 2017 - 07:01 PM.


#46 kab21

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 11:48 PM

 

Why can’t the Yankees or someone else offer Ohtani approximately $3M for the first year and $100M for the next four?

Because they can't agree (written or oral/undisclosed) to a contract beyond the original signing bonus.

Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Offseason (noun) - a time to propose trades assuming opposing GM's can't do the same basic analysis


#47 Aichiman

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 12:28 AM

I can tell you exactly what the Twins need to do to land Otani.First some background: I live in Japan.Been here 18 years and counting.I talked to one of my Japanese friends the other day.He's a ex ballplayer.He played on the same high school team as Ichiro.He is two years younger, so he they had one year together.He told me straight up with no hesitation.Otani does not want to go to a famous team like the Yankees, Dodgers, etc.The Twins can easily get him if they agree to one thing: He wants to pitch and DH.If they let him do it, he'll sign.He'll be a Twin.That's it.

 

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#48 Linus

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 03:21 AM

I can tell you exactly what the Twins need to do to land Otani. First some background: I live in Japan. Been here 18 years and counting. I talked to one of my Japanese friends the other day. He's a ex ballplayer. He played on the same high school team as Ichiro. He is two years younger, so he they had one year together. He told me straight up with no hesitation. Otani does not want to go to a famous team like the Yankees, Dodgers, etc. The Twins can easily get him if they agree to one thing: He wants to pitch and DH. If they let him do it, he'll sign. He'll be a Twin. That's it.


If this is true. The Twins should agree in a heartbeat. They have huge needs in both areas.
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#49 RaoulDuke

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 05:13 AM

 

All lakes in Minnesota are public property, but I suppose he could be offered shoreline.

 

The people can prolly afford to sacrifice one.


#50 RaoulDuke

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 05:20 AM

 

That has to be played very carefully. Because we really do not know how his hitting will could translate in the majors. Last season he hit .332/.403/.540 as a 23 year old.I do know that he was nursing injuries and had a much better 2016, but...

 

The non-mentionable in his age 25 season in Japan, before he came over, hit a very comparable .346/.423/.482 that did not translate quite well in the majors.Maybe the fact that was badly injured played a role here (and went he returned to Japan his numbers were pretty pathetic, too,)but, to quote Great White, once bitten, twice shy baby.

 

That's about his hitting only. No worries whether his pitching will play.Likely the best Japanese pitcher to make it to the majors.But committing that he will hit on a regular basis, does carry a risk.

 

I would much rather he not hit and just focus on being a stud pitcher, but if that is the price to land him I say do it.Maybe/ probably when he doesn't set the MLB aflame hitting he just focuses on pitching.


#51 Doctor Wu

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 08:00 AM

He can pitch, he can hit ... but can he shoot 3-pointers?Haven't had a good 2-sport star in a long time (wasn't Deion Sanders the last one?) , so why not let the T-Wolves sign this guy too?

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#52 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 08:23 AM

I'd be curious if he plays other positions. I don't mind letting him pitch and DH. I would appreciate it though if he could play a passable corner OF or IF position as well. Certainly not something to do a lot, but that gives for a bit more DH flexibility as opposed to Otani being a bench bat quite a bit.

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#53 kab21

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 11:33 AM

 

I can tell you exactly what the Twins need to do to land Otani.First some background: I live in Japan.Been here 18 years and counting.I talked to one of my Japanese friends the other day.He's a ex ballplayer.He played on the same high school team as Ichiro.He is two years younger, so he they had one year together.He told me straight up with no hesitation.Otani does not want to go to a famous team like the Yankees, Dodgers, etc.The Twins can easily get him if they agree to one thing: He wants to pitch and DH.If they let him do it, he'll sign.He'll be a Twin.That's it.

I pitched this earlier as a reason why the Twins have something that other teams can't offer. They already have a rotating DH role where Sano is going to play 50+ games at DH. Otani can easily get 60+ games at DH with Grossman/Garver/Escobar getting the final 50 games. It isn't a full time DH role but if he performs then he can hit more.

Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Offseason (noun) - a time to propose trades assuming opposing GM's can't do the same basic analysis


#54 Dantes929

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 12:06 PM

 

He can pitch, he can hit ... but can he shoot 3-pointers?Haven't had a good 2-sport star in a long time (wasn't Deion Sanders the last one?) , so why not let the T-Wolves sign this guy too?

 

I pitched this earlier as a reason why the Twins have something that other teams can't offer. They already have a rotating DH role where Sano is going to play 50+ games at DH. Otani can easily get 60+ games at DH with Grossman/Garver/Escobar getting the final 50 games. It isn't a full time DH role but if he performs then he can hit more.

I read he is super fast also or at least 3.9 to 1st base for a 6'5" guy seems super fast to me and hehas been playing outfield so I see no reason not to play him there also if he can hit.Too bad he bats lefty. Anyway with his size and speed I could see him being more likely to be a football player as a two way athlete.I heard he wants to play quarterback and linebacker.  

Don't Sweat the Small Stuff ... and it's all small stuff.

#55 prouster

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:56 PM

 

I read he is super fast also or at least 3.9 to 1st base for a 6'5" guy seems super fast to me and hehas been playing outfield so I see no reason not to play him there also if he can hit.Too bad he bats lefty. Anyway with his size and speed I could see him being more likely to be a football player as a two way athlete.I heard he wants to play quarterback and linebacker.  

 

The danger with letting him play in the outfield is that he'll almost certainly have to make some max effort throws on his days off from pitching.

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#56 Thrylos

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:41 PM

 

I'd be curious if he plays other positions. I don't mind letting him pitch and DH. I would appreciate it though if he could play a passable corner OF or IF position as well. Certainly not something to do a lot, but that gives for a bit more DH flexibility as opposed to Otani being a bench bat quite a bit.

 

Then there is the risk of injury.The last place I want him on a fly ball is near Buxton or Dozier.

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#57 Steve Lein

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:52 AM

 

If the international pool money is only a limit on his first year money, why are teams limited as to what the can pay him in years 2+?

Also, didn’t Cespedes and perhaps one or two other established Cuban players sign contracts allowing them early free agency? Is that not permitted now?

 

Because he's under the same rules as any other player MiLB player coming up. Team control, arbitration, etc... and the MLB has explicitly stated they will punish any team who attempts to skirt any rules by doing something like you mention.

 

There's no precedent, so no way to know what they will or won't allow. But for sure, you can't sign him with a promise you'll give him an extension after one or two years, MLB has said that's gonna be a no-no.

 

It's new rules, not the same as Cespedes and others before him.

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Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 45, Speed: 45. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but will sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)

#58 Deduno Abides

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:13 AM

I’ve heard that the Athletics have received permission from city government that they can call their city O-Town if he signs there.
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#59 Deduno Abides

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:22 AM

Because he's under the same rules as any other player MiLB player coming up. Team control, arbitration, etc... and the MLB has explicitly stated they will punish any team who attempts to skirt any rules by doing something like you mention.
 
There's no precedent, so no way to know what they will or won't allow. But for sure, you can't sign him with a promise you'll give him an extension after one or two years, MLB has said that's gonna be a no-no.
 
It's new rules, not the same as Cespedes and others before him.


Although Buxton, Berrios, Kepler, etc. are not even eligible for arbitration, the Twins can sign extensions with them now. The Astros and Rays have signed multi-year contracts with players who had almost no major league experience. It’s unclear why a team can’t be that aggressive with Ohtani. My guess is that he and his agent have reviewed the rules much closer than analysts have.

#60 Steve Lein

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:30 AM

 

Although Buxton, Berrios, Kepler, etc. are not even eligible for arbitration, the Twins can sign extensions with them now. The Astros and Rays have signed multi-year contracts with players who had almost no major league experience. It’s unclear why a team can’t be that aggressive with Ohtani. My guess is that he and his agent have reviewed the rules much closer than analysts have.

 

I know this is where its murky. But it's also different because Otani is a player who is going to play in the Majors right away. He's not going to come up through the minors.

 

Go find all the articles written about Otani and this stuff. You'll understand what's going on better, and why what you're talking about is under close scrutiny by MLB.

 

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Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 45, Speed: 45. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but will sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)