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Article: Two Veteran Free Agents The Twins Could Target

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#21 DaveW

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:40 AM

Hard pass on both. The Twins need to STOP signing bad players.

<p>Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS 7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR

#22 howieramone2

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:56 AM

Every team in baseball has a farm system full of prospects that would slot in behind Santana. Doubtful our team or most teams, at this point in time, have the money to sign somebody who will slot in front of Santana. All we need to do is use our deep farm system to trade for a 2/3 type. No need to impair our future, lusting for a mythical ace. There may be 10-12 in all of baseball, and we are much better off using our resources on our 6 young stars. You can have a good rotation, without a mythical ace, which is the route we should take.

Edited by howieramone2, 08 November 2017 - 10:09 AM.

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#23 wsnydes

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:09 AM

 

FWIW, Lackey is by far the active leader in HBP with 133. Next is CC Sabathia with 109. Bronson Aroyo and Ervin Santana are the only other actives over 100.

That said, I have no problem with a guy pitching hard inside to make hitters uncomfortable. That is part of the game. A part Twins pitchers have never done enough of IMO.

I agree.Maddon's reasoning, while not completely incorrect, is lame.Worrying about hitting a batter simply makes the pitcher's job harder.It is a part of the game, as it should be.Accidents happen, balls get away, hitters crowd the plate.All are a part of the game.When pitchers start hitting guys on purpose, then we can have that discussion.

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#24 howieramone2

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:15 AM

 

Hard pass on both. The Twins need to STOP signing bad players.

I never knew they started.

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#25 Deduno Abides

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:24 AM

Before Lackey is written off as finished, keep in mind that his K/BB rates in 2017 were better than Santana’s. However, I agree with people who would want a lot of diligence about his personality. Apparently, Maddon says his teammates love him last month and he has a lot of fire, which the Twins could have used over the years in the visiting clubhouse at Yankee Stadium, but he has had clubhouse problems in the past and he didn’t come off well when he filed for divorce while his wife was battling cancer.
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#26 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:27 AM

I submit that the Twins have veteran leadership already. Let's give the young players the experience they need

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#27 jimmer

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:37 AM

Lackey yells at his catcher and yells at his position players during the game (on the field) when mistakes happen. He acts like a complete donkey on the field. Hard pass.

#28 Nick Nelson

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:46 AM

Definitely sounds like Lackey's teammates hate him

 

http://m.mlb.com/new...cubs-teammates/


#29 nicksaviking

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:51 AM

Last year the team signed a bunch of "clubhouse" vets who's benefits were pretty entirely off-field related. While Lackey and Worth may be a slight step up from Giminez and Breslow, it's not like these guys are a big help on the field. I really hope the Twins stop doing this.

 

Isn't Carlos Santana known as a good clubhouse guy? Surely Addison Reed has some valuable veteran leadership skills? Can't we instead start getting veteran leaders that also contribute statistically?

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#30 Matt Johnson

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 11:03 AM

If the Twins sign Werth, I quit.


#31 drjim

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 11:58 AM

 

Last year the team signed a bunch of "clubhouse" vets who's benefits were pretty entirely off-field related. While Lackey and Worth may be a slight step up from Giminez and Breslow, it's not like these guys are a big help on the field. I really hope the Twins stop doing this.

 

Isn't Carlos Santana known as a good clubhouse guy? Surely Addison Reed has some valuable veteran leadership skills? Can't we instead start getting veteran leaders that also contribute statistically?

 

What does a DH and reliever have to do with a 5th starter and a 4th OF?

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#32 gocgo

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 12:02 PM

As far as getting Lackey for a veteran leader, I think Erv is probably a better example that I want my young guys to emulate.

 

As far as getting Werth in the dugout to hit lefties, I'd rather let our young guys take their hacks and learn how to hit lefties rather than taking up a roster spot for that.I see Werth as wanting to stay in the NL.

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#33 Mike Sixel

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 12:14 PM

I have no interest in either. I hope the Twins agree
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#34 d-mac

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 12:35 PM

As far as getting Lackey for a veteran leader, I think Erv is probably a better example that I want my young guys to emulate.
 

Except for the whole PED thing.
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#35 Wookiee of the Year

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 12:57 PM

I don't have any interest in adding a back-of-the-rotation starter (if you're going to add to the rotation, add near the top), but Werth holds some appeal for me.

 

It's simply not true that Grossman hits lefties better than Werth. In 2017, Werth's OPS against lefties was 124 points higher than Grossman's; across their careers, Werth is 89 points better. That's a real step up.

 

Also, Werth's defense isn't quite as bad as you'd think. In 2017: by DRS, he and Rosario were comparable below-average left fielders; by FRAA, Werth was half a win better than Rosario; and by UZR, Rosario was half a win better. None of us see Rosario as unplayable in the outfield; overall, Werth looks like maybe a half-win below average defender as a full-time player, and not nearly that bad as the short side of a platoon.

 

All that suggests Werth could be worthwhile as a corner outfielder platoon for Kepler and his .152/.213/.240 line against lefties.

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#36 nicksaviking

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 02:04 PM

 

What does a DH and reliever have to do with a 5th starter and a 4th OF?

 

Fine, Austin Jackson as the 4th OF and Tyler Chatwood as the #5 then.

 

Why would anyone intentionally go out and sign a "5th starter" anyway? No team should be intentionally looking for a guy who profiles as a 5th starter, that's typically a pretty poor adjective for a guy and the spot that goes to the weakest performing member of the rotation by default. This team needs front of the rotation help. Signing Lackey is just going to mean there's 5-10M less to go toward getting the #1 and #2 that this team needs.

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#37 GP830

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 02:31 PM

I'd rather give a couple million to Lackey on a short term deal than pay 4/48 to a middle-to-back-end of the rotation starter that will likely seem overpaid in 2-3 years, ie Cobb. 

 

Werth is a pass for me. Wouldn't be werth it.

 

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#38 drjim

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 02:46 PM

 

Fine, Austin Jackson as the 4th OF and Tyler Chatwood as the #5 then.

 

Why would anyone intentionally go out and sign a "5th starter" anyway? No team should be intentionally looking for a guy who profiles as a 5th starter, that's typically a pretty poor adjective for a guy and the spot that goes to the weakest performing member of the rotation by default. This team needs front of the rotation help. Signing Lackey is just going to mean there's 5-10M less to go toward getting the #1 and #2 that this team needs.

 

Nothing wrong with those two guys, though I suspect Chatwood signs a pretty decent contract.

 

On your second point, I don't think that's the way it works at all. 5th starter is the guy who occupies the 5th spot in the rotation, right? Not necessarily a value judgement. If the Twins took a shot at Lackey or one of the other 5 guys mentioned, there would be hope that he bounces back and is better than 2-3 of the other guys in the rotation. While the team should strive to have controllable arms in their prime occupying all of the rotation, that obviously isn't the case right now. As they try to distribute resources, while not locking into bad contracts, and keeping some flexibility for future prospects to break in or potential trades - it makes sense to have a varied risk preferences. So I don't really see the problem, or see why it is a bad strategy.

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#39 jtkoupal

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 03:07 PM

If the Twins stay true to who they are and don't make a big splash on a big name, I like Tyler Chatwood as a potential fit for this rotation. His numbers don't look good on paper, but let's not forget he pitched his home games in Coors Field. His road numbers are far better. His road ERA in 2017 was 3.49. Clearly, Coors Field inflated his ERA and deflated his chances at a big contract. Low-risk/high-reward signing for who could be a solid #3 starter behind Santana and Berrios.

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#40 Lee-The-Twins-Fan

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 03:25 PM

Only problem is, Chatwood is in the NL. Has to face DHs in the AL if he were with the Twins.