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#1041 LaBombo

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 10:19 PM

 

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that gender is a confounding factor in nearly every single aspect the HuffPo article raised.

 

 

Beat me to it. Lots of guys in the Senate are giant, colossal asshats. Yet I don't see the HuffPost going out of their way to beat them down and the HuffPost is generally LIBERAL.

 

Come on, liberals, get your **** together. Criticism is fine and welcome but this is pretty clearly digging into gender territory. A man is tough when he screams at his interns. A woman is just so... mean... when she does it. Stop it, women! Don't be so MEAN!

 

Well, sexism is certainly one way to go if you're doubting the credibility of the article. But is the sexism narrative hammer really the right tool for this particular job?

 

Obviously the article was written by two women, but co-author Amanda Terkel isn't just any female HuffPo reporter. She's also their Washington Bureau Chief. And literally everyone above her in the editorial pyramid - Senior Editors, Deputy Editor, Managing Editor, Executive Editor, Editor-in-Chief.. every one of them is female. Overwhelmingly female leadership is such a point of pride for HuffPo that it even tweeted a photo of an all-female editorial meeting in 2016.

 

Along with the less satisfying narrative offered by the idea of sexism against a woman by women, there's a plausibility issue as well, since there have been no credible allegations (that I could find, anyway) of sexist negative coverage by HuffPo of the other female presidential candidates' conduct.

 

And since I've disputed the credibility of the sexism explanation, it's only fair to offer an alternative theory as a target for return fire, so here goes.

 

On 2/5, AP beat reporter Elana Schor continued her ongoing coverage of Klobuchar's possible candidacy by breaking the news that an announcement was coming the following week.Well prior to that day, all the other announced 2020 candidates had announced co-sponsorship of the GND, while Klobuchar pointedly had not.

 

Late in the evening of 2/6, HuffP ran the piece about Klobuchar's alleged tantrums, one that rehashed the same LegiStorm data from an old Politico piece dating way back to April, no less.

 

On 2/7, as the GND was officially rolled out, Elana Schor breathlessly reported that Klobuchar WOULD co-sponsor the GND.

 

Is that sequence of events any sort of proof that Klobuchar finally signed the Green New Deal/2020 suicide pact because HuffPo left the 'Mean Boss' horse's head in her bed the night before? Of course not.

 

But Klobuchar is clearly the GND's most reluctant signatory, a fact she made plain by refusing to mention it by name at her campaign kickoff and then reinforced since then with an open and complete disavowal of GND's most... what's the polite word?.. controversial goals.

 

Anyway, call it a conspiracy theory if you like, and feel free to tear it apart. I've no stake in the matter, and fwiw, I think Klobuchar would make a better president (if not candidate) than most of the rest of the field.

Edited by LaBombo, 14 February 2019 - 10:39 PM.


#1042 Carole Keller

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 11:06 PM

 

Well, sexism is certainly one way to go if you're doubting the credibility of the article. But is the sexism narrative hammer really the right tool for this particular job?

 

Obviously the article was written by two women, but co-author Amanda Terkel isn't just any female HuffPo reporter. She's also their Washington Bureau Chief. And literally everyone above her in the editorial pyramid - Senior Editors, Deputy Editor, Managing Editor, Executive Editor, Editor-in-Chief.. every one of them is female. Overwhelmingly female leadership is such a point of pride for HuffPo that it even tweeted a photo of an all-female editorial meeting in 2016.

 

Along with the less satisfying narrative offered by the idea of sexism against a woman by women, there's a plausibility issue as well, since there have been no credible allegations (that I could find, anyway) of sexist negative coverage by HuffPo of the other female presidential candidates' conduct.

 

And since I've disputed the credibility of the sexism explanation, it's only fair to offer an alternative theory as a target for return fire, so here goes.

 

On 2/5, AP beat reporter Elana Schor continued her ongoing coverage of Klobuchar's possible candidacy by breaking the news that an announcement was coming the following week.Well prior to that day, all the other announced 2020 candidates had announced co-sponsorship of the GND, while Klobuchar pointedly had not.

 

Late in the evening of 2/6, HuffP ran the piece about Klobuchar's alleged tantrums, one that rehashed the same LegiStorm data from an old Politico piece dating way back to April, no less.

 

On 2/7, as the GND was officially rolled out, Elana Schor breathlessly reported that Klobuchar WOULD co-sponsor the GND.

 

Is that sequence of events any sort of proof that Klobuchar finally signed the Green New Deal/2020 suicide pact because HuffPo left the 'Mean Boss' horse's head in her bed the night before? Of course not.

 

But Klobuchar is clearly the GND's most reluctant signatory, a fact she made plain by refusing to mention it by name at her campaign kickoff and then reinforced since then with an open and complete disavowal of GND's most... what's the polite word?.. controversial goals.

 

Anyway, call it a conspiracy theory if you like, and feel free to tear it apart. I've no stake in the matter, and fwiw, I think Klobuchar would make a better president (if not candidate) than most of the rest of the field.

Wasn't this theory mentioned in the course of this discussion already? I thought it was. I thought someone made the point that they thought perhaps this article was an example of the more liberal media source attacking a more mainstream Democrat in order to push a more liberal agenda? Or something like that.

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#1043 TheLeviathan

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 08:55 AM

It's definitely a left-sided attack.To me, I viewed it as the further edges of the left view her as a threat and are trying to knock her down before she starts.

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#1044 Badsmerf

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 10:52 AM

So women can't have sexist views against women? Labombo? I get that isn't your whole point, but that argument falls flat. It sounds to me like she isn't a very nice person, and I bet many in Congress are similar.

There is also an Atlantic article attacking our new Muslim women in Congress for being anti Semitic after they made comments critical of a pro Israel lobby making payments (which they deny). That article is even worse than the Klobuchar article.

The left is truly beginning to cannibalize itself. Sad to see, but many predicted this.
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#1045 LaBombo

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 11:19 AM

 

Wasn't this theory mentioned in the course of this discussion already? I thought it was. I thought someone made the point that they thought perhaps this article was an example of the more liberal media source attacking a more mainstream Democrat in order to push a more liberal agenda? Or something like that.

 

Oh, cut the false modesty! Sorry, Simpsons reference, couldn't resist. It was you who posted a single sentence arguing that the Klobuchar article was more likely an example of "the more liberal attacking the more moderate" than sexism.

 

So my apologies for not acknowledging or crediting that post, and for taking up a great deal of space without adding anything to the discussion for you.

 

But it might be worth noting that your point included no specifics about the nature of the possible ideological rift between HP and Klobuchar, and that it was immediately dismissed by multiple posters who are apparently sticking with the idea that sexism was the root motivation of the piece.

 

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#1046 Carole Keller

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 11:26 AM

 

Oh, cut the false modesty! Sorry, Simpsons reference, couldn't resist. It was you who posted a single sentence arguing that the Klobuchar article was more likely an example of "the more liberal attacking the more moderate" than sexism.

 

So my apologies for not acknowledging or crediting that post, and for taking up a great deal of space without adding anything to the discussion for you.

 

But it might be worth noting that your point included no specifics about the nature of the possible ideological rift between HP and Klobuchar, and that it was immediately dismissed by multiple posters who are apparently sticking with the idea that sexism was the root motivation of the piece.

Well, I thought that maybe your post was an example of the lone woman in the boardroom not being heard, then the big man comes along, says the same thing, and is heard. I mean ... there's your sexism.

 

(And yes, I'm kidding .... or am I .... .... .... )

 

But I have commented for years that I don't see any unity among the left ... near or far ... and they do more to tear each other apart than finding common ground and unifying around that, even if individually we don't get everything we want in a candidate. So, my simple sentence was really more or less something I've been saying for a while and to me, that was but one example.

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#1047 PseudoSABR

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 11:27 AM

It could also be that Klobuchar is a really crummy boss and that speaks to her executive ability.Though the reasons the story got out and pushed, is probably a combination of both leftists-against-estabies and a bit of sexism. 


#1048 LaBombo

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 12:04 PM

 

Well, I thought that maybe your post was an example of the lone woman in the boardroom not being heard, then the big man comes along, says the same thing, and is heard. I mean ... there's your sexism.

 

(And yes, I'm kidding .... or am I .... .... .... )

 

But I have commented for years that I don't see any unity among the left ... near or far ... and they do more to tear each other apart than finding common ground and unifying around that, even if individually we don't get everything we want in a candidate. So, my simple sentence was really more or less something I've been saying for a while and to me, that was but one example.

 

Believe it or not, the mansplaining angle occurred to me as I wrote that last post, but text in general is so gender-neutral that after a thorough and unbiased ;) evaluation of what I wrote, I let myself off the hook.

 

And your original post definitely applies to other situations, which in turn brings up a difficult and ongoing struggle within both parties: balancing the desire for unity with the occasional need for what I'm going to call (for lack of a better term) self-policing. 

 

One additional thought on the sexism component of political reporting...I've already cast my vote for HuffPo's motivation being ideology rather than sexism. But one area that I think women might be a little more guilty of passive sexism toward other women is with regard to the type of question being asked of candidates.

 

Not all bias is with malicious intent. But if you're going to ask female candidates about things like balancing career with parenting and marriage, ask the male candidates too.

Edited by LaBombo, 15 February 2019 - 12:40 PM.

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#1049 LaBombo

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 12:18 PM

 

It could also be that Klobuchar is a really crummy boss and that speaks to her executive ability.Though the reasons the story got out and pushed, is probably a combination of both leftists-against-estabies and a bit of sexism. 

 

It's definitely true that there's no mutual exclusivity here. HuffPo's motives could be purely political without those motives diminishing the concerns over AK's alleged Jekyll/Hyde thing.

 

As a related aside, it seems worth mentioning that while there was ample evidence even before Trump that being a bad boss is a worrisome quality in a president, Klobuchar's disgruntled former employees would seem at first blush a more manageable liability than some of the baggage being toted into race by the other runners.


#1050 Vanimal46

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 12:37 PM



Things that make you go hmm....
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#1051 Carole Keller

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 01:04 PM

 

Believe it or not, the mansplaining angle occurred to me as I wrote that last post, but text in general is so gender-neutral that after a thorough and unbiased ;) evaluation of what I wrote, I let myself off the hook.

 

And your original post definitely applies to other situations, which in turn brings up a difficult and ongoing struggle within both parties: balancing the desire for unity with the occasional need for what I'm going to call (for lack of a better term) self-policing. 

 

One additional thought on the sexism component of political reporting...I've already cast my vote for HuffPo's motivation being ideology rather than sexism. But one area that I think women might be a little more guilty of passive sexism toward other women is with regard to the type of question being asked of candidates.

 

Not all bias is with malicious intent. But if you're going to ask female candidates about things like balancing career with parenting and marriage, ask the male candidates too.

I hope you know I'm mostly playing with you. Although I couldn't completely deny that there might be some subconscious indignation going on. :)

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#1052 LaBombo

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 02:19 PM

 

I hope you know I'm mostly playing with you. Although I couldn't completely deny that there might be some subconscious indignation going on. :)

 

"Of course I know that. After all, you're an extremely rational and fair-minded person", he said as he turned to go, adding "... for a woman." under his breath.

 

There was a sudden clatter from the neighboring room and he instinctively lunged for the door, fumbling for his car key as he ran.

Edited by LaBombo, 15 February 2019 - 02:33 PM.

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#1053 PseudoSABR

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 02:32 PM

 

It's definitely true that there's no mutual exclusivity here. HuffPo's motives could be purely political without those motives diminishing the concerns over AK's alleged Jekyll/Hyde thing.

 

As a related aside, it seems worth mentioning that while there was ample evidence even before Trump that being a bad boss is a worrisome quality in a president, Klobuchar's disgruntled former employees would seem at first blush a more manageable liability than some of the baggage being toted into race by the other runners.

Agreed.If true--it's not a major liability esp. compared to say what the Clintons and Trump brought to the campaign.Though it could up-end any effort to frame herself as a champion of the working class, should her opponents attempt to exploit that angle.  


#1054 ashburyjohn

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 04:49 PM

"Of course I know that. After all, you're an extremely rational and fair-minded person", he said as he turned to go, adding "... for a woman." under his breath.

giphy.gif.

There was a sudden clatter from the neighboring room and he instinctively lunged for the door, fumbling for his car key as he ran.

This seems related to the same death-wish that causes white college moths to be irresistibly drawn to the forbidden flame of putting on blackface. :)

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#1055 PseudoSABR

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 08:05 PM

I know very little about him, but there's been some buzz about this South Bend, Indiana mayor (Pete Buttigieg) running for president. I found him rather impressive from this interview.

 

https://www.pbs.org/...-good-president

Edited by PseudoSABR, 17 February 2019 - 08:05 PM.