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Article: Buxton and Dozier Gold Glove Finalists

byron buxton joe mauer brian dozier minnesota twins gold glove
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#21 nicksaviking

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 10:18 AM

All three 1B finalists are free agents. If I was a conspiracy nut I'd think the MLBPA gave the BBWA recommendations of who to choose to try to help inflate the importance of a position that in recent years has seen a decrease in value and pay due to it's perception of being minimally important in this new era of focusing on defense.

Good thing I'm not a conspiracy nut! But good news for those of you that are, Mauer is a lock for the award next year!
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#22 Sarah

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 10:42 AM

No, I agree with this. I don't think he will win but I remember saying earlier this season that Dozier is a better second baseman than people give him credit for. And he's out there busting it every day - I can't remember a game this season when he didn't play. Nice to see him getting some recognition for this underrated part of his game. 

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#23 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 10:45 AM

Moreland and Santana had better numbers. Hosmer has the reputation. Defensive metrics are interesting in that even over a season, we're largely dealing with small sample sizes. It really doesn't make sense that Hos would be elite 1 year and not the next.

That said, Mauer passed the eye test over the course of the season, but any single game, he rarely made spectacular plays. He was average chasing down foul pops. Often took safe routes on ground balls and took safe outs over double plays or getting the lead runner.

I believe Mauer has gotten better across the board at first base with the exception of chasing down fly balls. But I don't consider it robbery that he wasn't a finalist.


It makes perfect sense that a guy could have an up or down year defensively. No different whatsoever than a hitter or pitcher having an up or down year.

#24 jimmer

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 10:49 AM

Hosmer has NEVER been a real quality defensive 1B.Ever.Where he got that rep is beyond me.Has never deserved a GG.Ever.


#25 gunnarthor

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 11:25 AM

Congrats to both Dozier and Buxton.

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#26 USAFChief

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:23 PM

It makes perfect sense that a guy could have an up or down year defensively. No different whatsoever than a hitter or pitcher having an up or down year.


I read this a lot, but I question it. Defensive ability should be pretty stable, IMO. At least way more stable than 1 yr of hitting or pitching results.

It's just another reason I'm very skeptical about current publicly available defensive metrics.

I might be proven wrong someday, of course.
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I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#27 drjim

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:38 PM

 

I read this a lot, but I question it. Defensive ability should be pretty stable, IMO. At least way more stable than 1 yr of hitting or pitching results.

It's just another reason I'm very skeptical about current publicly available defensive metrics.

I might be proven wrong someday, of course.

 

Very likely there is an "update" to defensive metrics in the future that smooths some of this out.

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Papers...business papers.

#28 davidc3915

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:50 PM

Should there even be two other finalists for American League CF?  They should just prestamp the next 10 with Buxton, Byron MIN on them

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#29 h2oface

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 03:36 PM

So the GG brain trust is 1-3 when it comes to the Twins, with what should be a sure thing, a blatant snub, and a total overrating of a second baseman. Such a misguided award, but it keeps getting notoriety. This award has been a joke for decades. Someone needs to create a new award to take over and make it right.

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#30 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:19 PM

I read this a lot, but I question it. Defensive ability should be pretty stable, IMO. At least way more stable than 1 yr of hitting or pitching results.

It's just another reason I'm very skeptical about current publicly available defensive metrics.

I might be proven wrong someday, of course.


Ability would be fairly stable, sure. But performance wouldn't be. Why should it? These are humans, not robots. Defense could and should peak and valley just like pitching or hitting.

You've never seen a normally good fielder have a bad day? If they are capable of having a bad day, then they are capable of having a bad year.
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#31 Jham

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 07:20 AM

Ability would be fairly stable, sure. But performance wouldn't be. Why should it? These are humans, not robots. Defense could and should peak and valley just like pitching or hitting.

You've never seen a normally good fielder have a bad day? If they are capable of having a bad day, then they are capable of having a bad year.


I think your probably right. I think the issue Cheif and I have is that a bad day can really skew the metrics. I think Rosario had that this year. A few bad throws and drops negated a lot of solid play. If hee caught a few of the balls that he clamored after a long run, his metrics probably look much better. Sort of like a bad inning to a reliever.

#32 Sconnie

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 07:09 PM

I read this a lot, but I question it. Defensive ability should be pretty stable, IMO. At least way more stable than 1 yr of hitting or pitching results.

It's just another reason I'm very skeptical about current publicly available defensive metrics.

I might be proven wrong someday, of course.

what about variables like health, field conditions, positioning tendencies by coaching staff changing, pitching staff changes or opposing teams changing base running tactics?

#33 Sconnie

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 07:19 PM

I think your probably right. I think the issue Cheif and I have is that a bad day can really skew the metrics. I think Rosario had that this year. A few bad throws and drops negated a lot of solid play. If hee caught a few of the balls that he clamored after a long run, his metrics probably look much better. Sort of like a bad inning to a reliever.

statistically the “bad nights” should normalize over a season. It’s why fielding metrics are preferred to be viewed as a season stat.

Still, “should” and “do” are different. Sometimes the bad nights accumulate enough that they become more the norm than the exception

#34 USAFChief

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 10:44 PM

what about variables like health, field conditions, positioning tendencies by coaching staff changing, pitching staff changes or opposing teams changing base running tactics?


Certainly health could diminish a players defensive ability. Age, too.

However, Field conditions are a non factor, and in any case are unrelated to defensive ability. So is positioning....that might mean fewer or more balls fielded but that's scouting, not defensive ability. Who pitches doesn't make someone a better or worse defender, nor does the other team.

I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#35 Sconnie

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 12:04 PM

Certainly health could diminish a players defensive ability. Age, too.

However, Field conditions are a non factor, and in any case are unrelated to defensive ability. So is positioning....that might mean fewer or more balls fielded but that's scouting, not defensive ability. Who pitches doesn't make someone a better or worse defender, nor does the other team.

ability is never measured in isolation. It’s always measured in outcomes of plays. Outcomes of plays are impacted by dozens of things
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#36 Halsey Hall

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 08:21 AM

I really thought Mauer would win it this year.Why the snub?

he gone!




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