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Here's Your Chance To Weigh In On Bat Flips

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Poll: Bat Flips (50 member(s) have cast votes)

Flipping your bat is...

  1. Good (17 votes [34.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.00%

  2. Bad (8 votes [16.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.00%

  3. Who cares (25 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

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#41 USAFChief

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 10:38 PM

I don't get this at all. I've also seen plenty of the "stare down the pitcher" commentary on what Puig did. He did not stare at the pitcher at all - he watched the home run leave, then looked out to see that the pitcher was looking, and then he placed his bat down.

As a pitcher, I was always zeroed in on every hitter individually as an overarching goal of completing the inning, and, further, the game. After that fight with the individual was won or lost, there was a level of exuberance or disappointment. Being able to generate that exuberance into a display at the end of the individual is not "showing up" as much as it could very well be a "tip of the cap" to sort meone just as well.

Puig's background has plenty of people after him, but he's also the guy who was joking with and hugging Javy Baez after the finger wag at second base as well. He's a guy who plays with emotion, but he's learned how to direct that emotion. If a pitcher has previously called out bat flips, he very well may lay down the bat as a point of statement. I have no issue with that whatsoever as he's not starting the fight, he's responding to previous statements.

Again...there was little or no exuberance in anything Puig did. You said it yourself...he made sure the pitcher was watching--WAITED until the pitcher was watching--then took calculated, preplanned action.

That's not exuberance. That's being an asshat. I like baseball better without it.
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#42 davidc3915

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 11:41 PM

I agree with those that have said that a bat flip belongs to the big moments of a game. That said, the next time buxton hits one of his patented inside the park jobs, should he pick up his bat after crossing home then flip it?
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#43 biggentleben

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 12:01 AM

Again...there was little or no exuberance in anything Puig did. You said it yourself...he made sure the pitcher was watching--WAITED until the pitcher was watching--then took calculated, preplanned action.

That's not exuberance. That's being an asshat. I like baseball better without it.

You're entitled to your opinion. I happen to think you're completely reading the situation wrong.
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#44 USAFChief

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 07:52 AM

You're entitled to your opinion. I happen to think you're completely reading the situation wrong.


Puig's actions weren't preplanned? They weren't designed to belittle another's failure, rather than celebrate one's own success? Calculated to make Puig the center of attention?
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#45 jimmer

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 10:57 AM

 

You're entitled to your opinion. I happen to think you're completely reading the situation wrong.

MLB apparently should stand for Mundane Lifeless Baseball? ;-)

 

People wonder why baseball, the greatest game ever, is losing young fans. One reason I'm always told by younger generation people is because it's boring.Not the game, but because the players act so much more robotic.Yeah, pace of play is a problem too and baseball CAN and hopefully WILL do somethings to address that, but it's a boring game for many youngsters.

 

The old guard wants to keep the game all reserved/prim and proper, instead of letting the players have fun.Failure to realize things can and should evolve.I loved watching games in Latin America because they understand the game should be FUN. 

 

Players allow themselves to get butthurt about little things and one reason why is that they've been told forever they SHOULD get butthurt because 'That's not how the game is played'.Well, that's one reason. Another reason is because it's a great deflection mechanism.Turn the pitcher's failure into a problem with how the batter reacted.'Yeah, I gave up another HR, but look how he's reacting that's sooooo wrong. Let's focus on THAT.'

Edited by jimmer, 29 October 2017 - 11:19 AM.


#46 spinowner

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 01:14 PM

 

MLB apparently should stand for Mundane Lifeless Baseball? ;-)

 

People wonder why baseball, the greatest game ever, is losing young fans. One reason I'm always told by younger generation people is because it's boring.Not the game, but because the players act so much more robotic.Yeah, pace of play is a problem too and baseball CAN and hopefully WILL do somethings to address that, but it's a boring game for many youngsters.

 

The old guard wants to keep the game all reserved/prim and proper, instead of letting the players have fun.Failure to realize things can and should evolve.I loved watching games in Latin America because they understand the game should be FUN. 

 

Players allow themselves to get butthurt about little things and one reason why is that they've been told forever they SHOULD get butthurt because 'That's not how the game is played'.Well, that's one reason. Another reason is because it's a great deflection mechanism.Turn the pitcher's failure into a problem with how the batter reacted.'Yeah, I gave up another HR, but look how he's reacting that's sooooo wrong. Let's focus on THAT.'

My interpretation of your post is that you are missing the point. I think it's totally fine for one team or one player to celebrate wildly and enthusiastically but I think it's wrong and totally unnecessary for that celebration to include belittling the other team or another player. 

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#47 USAFChief

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 01:17 PM

My interpretation of your post is that you are missing the point. I think it's totally fine for one team or one player to celebrate wildly and enthusiastically but I think it's wrong and totally unnecessary for that celebration to include belittling the other team or another player.


That would be wrong at my workplace, too.

Or on the elementary school playground, where it's most common.

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#48 jimmer

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 01:25 PM

 

My interpretation of your post is that you are missing the point. I think it's totally fine for one team or one player to celebrate wildly and enthusiastically but I think it's wrong and totally unnecessary for that celebration to include belittling the other team or another player. 

I'm not missing any point, I think the point is ridiculous. People can't even agree on where the line is. Who gets to decide? It's arbitrary.

 

Besides, iIt's only considered belittling because it's been burnt into our heads that it is. It could be taken as just having fun playing a kids game and people could look at it that way, like they do in Latin American countries.

 

People mess up, they get upset for messing up. So then they see the opponent having fun, they get offended.Thing is, they were already butthurt and looking for any excuse to show that emotion, and when offensive players show that emotion, the butthurt comes out but it's perfectly okay to be butthurt cause the mighty unwritten rules have been broken.Let's take the attention off me messing up by giving up the HR and put it where it belongs, on the batter 'showing me up'. 

 

THAT'S the childish part.Deflecting the responsibility for messing up on others and not taking responsibility for their own mistakes.

Edited by jimmer, 29 October 2017 - 01:41 PM.


#49 spinowner

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 03:27 PM

 

I'm not missing any point, I think the point is ridiculous. People can't even agree on where the line is. Who gets to decide? It's arbitrary.

 

Besides, iIt's only considered belittling because it's been burnt into our heads that it is. It could be taken as just having fun playing a kids game and people could look at it that way, like they do in Latin American countries.

 

People mess up, they get upset for messing up. So then they see the opponent having fun, they get offended.Thing is, they were already butthurt and looking for any excuse to show that emotion, and when offensive players show that emotion, the butthurt comes out but it's perfectly okay to be butthurt cause the mighty unwritten rules have been broken.Let's take the attention off me messing up by giving up the HR and put it where it belongs, on the batter 'showing me up'. 

 

THAT'S the childish part.Deflecting the responsibility for messing up on others and not taking responsibility for their own mistakes.

The line is not arbitrary. If you deliberately direct your celebration at your opponent in any way it's over the line. And here's what's childish: A batter staring down a pitcher and/or flipping a bat after hitting a home run. It's the equivalent of saying, "Ha-ha, you're a loser."

Edited by spinowner, 29 October 2017 - 03:32 PM.


#50 jimmer

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 03:30 PM

 

Here's what's childish: A batter staring down a pitcher and/or flipping a bat after hitting a home run. It's the equivalent of saying, "Ha-ha, I beat you, I'm better than you."

I have no issue with the bat flip, obviously.  


#51 drjim

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 03:40 PM

 

MLB apparently should stand for Mundane Lifeless Baseball? ;-)

 

People wonder why baseball, the greatest game ever, is losing young fans. One reason I'm always told by younger generation people is because it's boring.Not the game, but because the players act so much more robotic.Yeah, pace of play is a problem too and baseball CAN and hopefully WILL do somethings to address that, but it's a boring game for many youngsters.

 

The old guard wants to keep the game all reserved/prim and proper, instead of letting the players have fun.Failure to realize things can and should evolve.I loved watching games in Latin America because they understand the game should be FUN. 

 

Players allow themselves to get butthurt about little things and one reason why is that they've been told forever they SHOULD get butthurt because 'That's not how the game is played'.Well, that's one reason. Another reason is because it's a great deflection mechanism.Turn the pitcher's failure into a problem with how the batter reacted.'Yeah, I gave up another HR, but look how he's reacting that's sooooo wrong. Let's focus on THAT.'

 

To the extent baseball is losing young fans, which it has been for over a century now, I would suggest this reason contributes close to 0% of the reason.

 

I do think this new generation of players is becoming a little more demonstrative, and that is probably a fine thing, but I suspect there will be some hesitancy to direct celebrations at opponents. Players generally know the line - the handful of incidents a year being the exceptions that prove the rule.

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#52 jimmer

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 03:49 PM

 

To the extent baseball is losing young fans, which it has been for over a century now, I would suggest this reason contributes close to 0% of the reason.

 

I do think this new generation of players is becoming a little more demonstrative, and that is probably a fine thing, but I suspect there will be some hesitancy to direct celebrations at opponents. Players generally know the line - the handful of incidents a year being the exceptions that prove the rule.

I ask my kids, my niece, my nephews and the friends of those kids why they don't like baseball and one thing they've almost all said, in one way or another, is that the players seem to not even care.They do something awesome and it's like ho-hum.Then they see football players and basketball players get excited and it's fun for the kids to see that.  


#53 drjim

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 03:51 PM

 

I ask my kids, my niece, my nephews and the friends of those kids why they don't like baseball and one thing they've almost all said, in one way or another, is that the players seem to not even care.They do something awesome and it's like ho-hum.Then they see football players and basketball players get excited and it's fun for the kids to see that.  

 

That's amazing to me, but I'll accept your evidence.

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#54 jimmer

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 04:37 PM

That's amazing to me, but I'll accept your evidence.

I have no idea how big of a factor it is, but it seems to me it is somewhat a factor.

#55 biggentleben

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 05:23 PM

The whole point is that we are watching this game from our couch. I don't know the relationship between the players in question. We don't know if it's something where he and the pitcher are going to laugh and hug about it after the game. All we see is what the clip catches or the game video catches. I've noted Puig tip his cap, pat a pitcher on the back their next encounter, and point his bat (or finger) at him with a smile to acknowledge the pitcher getting the best of him. We just don't know what the pitchers and hitters are thinking and doing on the field from play to play. They are competitors, but they're also friends. I played against good friends on the football field and how we responded after a play would have looked bad to people for sportsmanship if you didn't know that we were friends and having fun with one another.

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#56 TheLeviathan

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 10:10 AM

May the baseball gods bless Mark Canha for the rest of his career.Good for you.

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#57 awinter

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 10:46 AM

I love bat flips. I think the MLB should create a bat flip fund. All teams would contribute $X at the beginning of season. After all the normal awards (MVP, Gold Gloves) are handed out, the bat flip committee would get together to watch and score all of the bat flips that happened throughout the season. Scores would be based on the in-game impact of the home-run, season (or post-season) impact, exuberance/emotion of the player, and of course, flight time of the bat. The bat flip with the highest score gets the biggest chunk of the pool and ALL qualified bat flips would get some kind of payout. I know what you're thinking "what about this problem?" or "what about so-and-so?". I'm not interesting in hearing about any issues stemming from this awesome idea.


#58 ashburyjohn

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 10:51 AM

 

I love bat flips. I think the MLB should create a bat flip fund. All teams would contribute $X at the beginning of season. After all the normal awards (MVP, Gold Gloves) are handed out, the bat flip committee would get together to watch and score all of the bat flips that happened throughout the season. Scores would be based on the in-game impact of the home-run, season (or post-season) impact, exuberance/emotion of the player, and of course, flight time of the bat. The bat flip with the highest score gets the biggest chunk of the pool and ALL qualified bat flips would get some kind of payout. I know what you're thinking "what about this problem?" or "what about so-and-so?". I'm not interesting in hearing about any issues stemming from this awesome idea.

The downside to this, omitted in the analysis, is that when you reward a behavior, you tend to get more of it. You need to think this through further.

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#59 awinter

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 11:10 AM

 

The downside to this, omitted in the analysis, is that when you reward a behavior, you tend to get more of it. You need to think this through further.

I never said I wanted less bat flips. I apologize for the blatant omission so let me add to my analysis... I want more bat flips so let's reward the behavior of bat flipping please.

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#60 awinter

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 11:26 AM

Your 2015 winner

ap_alds_rangers_blue_jays_baseball_76736

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