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Article: Do The Twins Need A Proven Closer?

trevor hildenberger matt belisle brandon kintzler
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#41 Doomtints

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:57 PM

 

Do The Twins Need A Proven Closer?

 

Yes.

 

Absolutely.

 

And two setup men that are lights out.

 

Not soft tossing arms. Not Tonkin and Pressly, Not Kintzler and Belisle. We have to do better to be a team that will win come October. If you just want to get to play in October, they will do, probably. If you want to win in October, not a chance.

 

Exactly. I'm not sure how anyone who lived through the Nathan years can think closers don't matter. Nathan made the 8th inning guys look better because opposing teams were trying to force things to happen before Nathan came in, and Rincon/Romero were pretty damn good at times in their own rights....


#42 beckmt

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:38 PM

More of the better relievers are coming to be multi-inning relievers.I want some of them.We should be able to develop a few, but would like to buy one or two.  

Twins also need one ace type starter.This is the year to go get one.


#43 Darius

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:40 PM

Proven - as in converted a high number and percentage of saves? No.

Proven - as in has consistently been a good pitcher? Yes.
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#44 Darius

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:51 PM

Exactly. I'm not sure how anyone who lived through the Nathan years can think closers don't matter. Nathan made the 8th inning guys look better because opposing teams were trying to force things to happen before Nathan came in, and Rincon/Romero were pretty damn good at times in their own rights....

It's interesting that the post you're replying to delves into what it takes to win in October, and you cite Joe Nathan, who collected 1 save, 1 loss, and 1 blown save in the postseason for the Twins. That in 8.2 innings, while walking 7 batters and allowing 6 runs in that span.

Nathan is one of the best closers of all time, but my God was he brutal in the playoffs.

Edited by Darius, 24 October 2017 - 08:57 PM.


#45 h2oface

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:58 PM

 

I think it’s wrong-headed to believe the closer is the top of the bullpen pecking order in the first place. I hope the front office feels the same way.

Find a good reliever for the ninth but he shouldn’t be the best reliever in the pen.

 

Maybe not, if the guy is a clone of Andrew Miller. 

 


#46 Doomtints

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 07:30 AM

 

It's interesting that the post you're replying to delves into what it takes to win in October, and you cite Joe Nathan, who collected 1 save, 1 loss, and 1 blown save in the postseason for the Twins. That in 8.2 innings, while walking 7 batters and allowing 6 runs in that span.

Nathan is one of the best closers of all time, but my God was he brutal in the playoffs.

 

The Twins likely would have not been in the postseason at all most or all of those years without Nathan.


#47 gunnarthor

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 07:51 AM

 

I would not want to stake my playoff chances on a Kintzler level arm. Don't get me wrong, he has value. 

Would you rather have had him pitch or Hildenberger and Busentiz?

 

And, frankly, our bullpen was fine at the end of the season and did ok against NY. Santana and Berrios gave up all but one run.


#48 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 08:13 AM

 

The Twins likely would have not been in the postseason at all most or all of those years without Nathan.

 

This discussion is ironic given that Nathan was not a proven closer when we got him.

 

This team needs relief help, and they need guys who can get the Ks and have the mentality to walk into those pressure situations and shine, but as we saw, guys like Kintzler and Guardado can do that job just fine. I don't have a problem with a guy like Nathan in that role, but right now, we just need more guys like Nathan. The correct words to search for are "shutdown reliever" not "proven closer."

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#49 drjim

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 08:19 AM

Getting Nathan seems like a pretty impressive scouting find. He was a solid reliever for the Giants, but really took a leap when he became a Twin.

 

That is the type of move that takes a team to the next level.

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#50 Doomtints

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 08:39 AM

 

This discussion is ironic given that Nathan was not a proven closer when we got him.

 

It's not ironic at all given that the discussion is actually "closers are overrated." If the Twins can find a Nathan-in-the-rough on some other team, yeah go get him without hesitation.


#51 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 08:54 AM

 

It's not ironic at all given that the discussion is actually "closers are overrated." If the Twins can find a Nathan-in-the-rough on some other team, yeah go get him without hesitation.

Closers are overrated.

 

I think we can all agree that Molitor would be a better manager if he looked a lot more like Terry Francona.

 

Andrew Miller is not Cleveland's "closer". He's their best bullpen arm. He entered the game in the ninth inning six times in 2017. He had 57 appearances.


#52 USAFChief

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 10:00 AM

Closers are overrated.
 
I think we can all agree that Molitor would be a better manager if he looked a lot more like Terry Francona.
 
Andrew Miller is not Cleveland's "closer". He's their best bullpen arm. He entered the game in the ninth inning six times in 2017. He had 57 appearances.


Or we could look at Dave Roberts, manager of the team with the best regular season record. Kenley Jansen is his best reliever. He got into 65 games, and finished 57 of them.

It would be interesting to see what Franconia would have done with Miller if he lost Allen.

I don't think closers are overrated as much as deep and strong bullpens are underrated.
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#53 Doomtints

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 11:58 AM

 

Closers are overrated.

 

I think we can all agree that Molitor would be a better manager if he looked a lot more like Terry Francona.

 

Andrew Miller is not Cleveland's "closer". He's their best bullpen arm. He entered the game in the ninth inning six times in 2017. He had 57 appearances.

 

What's the difference between the 2016 Cubs and the 2017 Cubs?


#54 Mike Sixel

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 12:03 PM

 

What's the difference between the 2016 Cubs and the 2017 Cubs?

 

mostly luck and CF defense and regression from several players, not 1 player....

 

People really vastly underestimate luck or randomness in sports

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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#55 jimmer

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 02:55 PM

Cubs still won their division and made in the the NLCS.Very good year for them.Losing Fowler was big and a falloff from the pitching staff was an issue for them too.


#56 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 05:08 PM

 

Cubs still won their division and made in the the NLCS.Very good year for them.Losing Fowler was big and a falloff from the pitching staff was an issue for them too.

Yeah... It's really hard to win 100 games in back-to-back seasons because it requires quite a bit of luck along with a really good roster. The last team to go back-to-back was the 2003-2004 Yankees, I believe. We're nearing 15 years without a back-to-back 100 win team.

 

It's not like the Cubs collapsed. They won over 90 games.

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#57 laloesch

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:48 PM

 

Would you rather have had him pitch or Hildenberger and Busentiz?

 

And, frankly, our bullpen was fine at the end of the season and did ok against NY. Santana and Berrios gave up all but one run.

 

Yep.Exposed the teams biggest weakness (lack of a top of the rotation caliper starter).Santana is a good pitcher but not ace caliper and never has been.Berrios might get there eventually but the jury is still out.




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