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Article: Do The Twins Need A Proven Closer?

trevor hildenberger matt belisle brandon kintzler
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#21 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:15 AM

To answer the original question: No.

 

They need pen help. I'll be disappointed if a guy like Kintzler is the target. I want 1, if not 2, high leverage relievers. They can fill the 9th inning role come spring.

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#22 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:23 AM

I say we need a proven shutdown reliever, worry about the closer stuff later. The important thing is for the Twins to have a guy that other teams fear when they're down in 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th. Someone that can come in at any situation, not just close. The only problem is that the guy I'm thinking of is isn't a free agent. But it's definitely possible for the Twins to pull off a deal for Padres reliever Brad Hand. All Falvine would have to do is hand over Nick Gordon (they need a SS) and couple mid/low tier prospects. IMO, Hand's value as a versatile shutdown reliever (on a team that lacks quality pitching) definitely outweighs Gordon's value as a future Twin, so I don't think anyone would lose sleep over the loss of Gordon. I wouldn't.

 

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#23 Steve Penz

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:44 AM

 

"I would be surprised if they didn't resign Kintzler next year.He likes it in Minnesota and i could see them working out a 2 year with option or 3 year contract.If they can get Belisle on a 1 year deal again for around 3.5 to 4 million I would do that.But in all seriousness, the Twins do need to sign a second reliever.I do like the idea of signing Wade Davis and using Kintzler as a set up man.That gives 3 different looks from Hildenburger the side armer to Kintzler the ground ball machine to Davis who overpowers hitters.then we just need a good lefty.(Tyler Jay.....)"

 

I am in the "go get Wade Davis" camp.It will cost a ton but he is a great relief pitcher.Mackey and Wetmore broke this down on their podcast recently and I am drinking this koolaid.The chances that the Twins can get a top-level starter in the offseason are less but there is opportunity to have a power packed bullpen to start the year.How would our BP look with Kinzler and Davis?REALLY GOOD.  

 


#24 drjim

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:48 AM

 

There are times in a ballgame where the 9th inning takes a back seat. For example, say the other team gets two on and no outs in the 7th with 3-4-5- coming up.  You put your best out there in that situation, don't you? Worry about the 9th later. 

 

Maybe in October.

 

The problem is you got to warm guys up, and it can't be done after the second batter reaches and before the next batter hits. Hard to plan and you can't have a reliever warm up multiple times each game. There is a reason relievers slot into roles throughout the season.

 

That said, they just need to add a couple of good relievers, no real reason to pay a closer premium, and line everyone up.

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#25 DJL44

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:52 AM

They need a veteran player to be the closer, not necessarily a guy who has saved games in the past. Saves cost too much in arbitration to be giving them to rookies and inflating their salaries unnecessarily. Give saves to the cost-certain veterans.

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#26 MileHighTwinsFan

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:47 PM

If the Twins are at the point where they are not merely focused on making the playoffs, but on winning championships - there is no question that they need to have two to three elite bullpen arms.  

 

Starting at the closer spot down - you need shut down arms that pile up strikeouts and can go multiple innings.  

 

I fear the Yankees because they have Green, Robertson, Betances, Chapman, Kahnle. These guys are dominant and will likely be central to their title runs for the next several years. 

 

Ideally these arms will ultimately emerge from within the organization. However, if we are going to compete next year - we will need to find proven arms through free agency and trades.Kintzler is a start, but we need at least one more strong and proven arm, at some point, if we are going to be serious contenders.

 


#27 RaoulDuke

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 01:22 PM

Twins need big arms for the pen, I like Mcgee and Morrow spend some money on the top end.They don't need a closer to pigeon hole into the 9th inning but they do need guys with closer stuff.


#28 gocgo

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 01:38 PM

In my perfect world, I want 8 relievers with the following roles:

 

Closer A

Closer B (left handed)

 

8th inning guy A

8th inning guy B

 

7th inning guy A

7th inning guy B

 

Long reliever/6th inning guy A (left handed)

Long reliever B/6th inning guy B (left handed)

 

If my starter gets gets shelled early, too bad.Suck it up and get me 100 pitches/5 innings. I'll write off the game.

 

I want my bullpen A and B to alternate days, recognizing that they may have to go back to back at times (extra innings, LOOGY situations, injuries, etc.).If a starter pitches into or beyond the 7th, those guys get an extra day off.

 

Now for the most important part.Do your job well.Our goal is to shorten the game for the opposition.They get 5 innings to score.We get 8-9 innings to score.There's my formula for winning 60 percent of our games.

 

Realistic?Probably not.

Mind your own biscuits and life will be gravy.


#29 Platoon

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 02:32 PM

I would not want to stake my playoff chances on a Kintzler level arm. Don't get me wrong, he has value. But if he is the top of the pecking order for our pen, then I can't see the talent level showing much improvement. The best hope is that some of the MiLB guys make the next step. The odds of that are greater than the team spending the kind of money experienced talent would receive.
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#30 thegambler

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:04 PM

 

I think the Twins need some bullpen flexibility. Kintzler appears to be able to work middle relief and step in to take over the ninth inning in case of extended ineffectiveness by whomever is tagged as the ninth inning guy.

 

So, I think Kintzler should receive serious consideration.

 

And, Kintzler now has a valuable commodity: post-season experience. 

Agreed.Kintzler is not your typically closer. He's not the guy I want in the 9th trying to close out the Yankees, in Yankee stadium. As a backup, maybe.The Twins need to add velocity to their bullpen.They have no power arms, is somewhat embarrassing to say the least, especially when you see teams like New York, Chicago, Houston, and others, rolling out power arms.Those guys are out there, there's no reason the Twins can't find them, scout them, or sign them. Kintzler will command too much money for not being a power arm, in my opinion.


#31 mikelink45

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:06 PM

Underwhelming is the word that comes to mind.Go young - nothing else looks worth and investment.Test the young arms, but not Pressly, he has consistently proved that he is Tonkin like when the big bats are up. 

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#32 ThejacKmp

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 04:18 PM

Another thought is to go and find the next Kintzler/Belisle by promising someone who would be unlikely to close games elsewhere that they'll get the chance to on a 1 year deal. Since people still pay for closers, you may get someone who wants a chance to get the big bucks.


#33 nicksaviking

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:01 PM

Another thought is to go and find the next Kintzler/Belisle by promising someone who would be unlikely to close games elsewhere that they'll get the chance to on a 1 year deal. Since people still pay for closers, you may get someone who wants a chance to get the big bucks.


I can't imagine Kintzler or Belisle get big bucks though this year.

I want velocity and I want strikeouts. I want free agents that can offer those things, otherwise I'd rather go with the young guys who can.
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#34 IndianaTwin

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:02 PM

Maybe there are examples, but it seems like young guys don't often open the season as closers and stay there. That's at least in part because they don't often get the chance, sure, but it seems rough to win the job based on the previous year, demonstrate enough in spring training to hold it, and then get off to a hot start. 

 

Rather, it seems like a lot of closers earn their way into the job by pitching lights-out and stepping in when the old guy stumbles/gets hurt. So, I like the thought of taking the flyer on the guy with closer experience (like Kintzler or even Rodney). If they keep the job, cool. If not, you've had real-time evaluation of which young guy has the hot hand THIS year. 


#35 h2oface

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:28 PM

Do The Twins Need A Proven Closer?

 

Yes.

 

Absolutely.

 

And two setup men that are lights out.

 

Not soft tossing arms. Not Tonkin and Pressly, Not Kintzler and Belisle. We have to do better to be a team that will win come October. If you just want to get to play in October, they will do, probably. If you want to win in October, not a chance.

Edited by h2oface, 23 October 2017 - 06:31 PM.

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#36 USDToreros42

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:48 PM

Two words: Anthony McIver
Has done well at every level and as starter, mid relief and closer. Comments?

#37 dbminn

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:37 AM

I like the Brad Hand trade but it will take more than Gordon and a couple of lower prospects. He has two low-cost arb years remaining before he's a FA. Probably take Gordon and one of the very young Twins pitching prospects to get him. I'd make the deal.

 

McGee, Morrow would be top FA priorities. 

 

IMO, the Twins will need to trade for either a SP or RP and sign the other as a FA. I can't see the Twins adding $30M+ per year to the payroll for two pitchers via free agency. Especially if both are 31-33 years old to begin their contracts. 


#38 ThejacKmp

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 11:52 AM

 

I can't imagine Kintzler or Belisle get big bucks though this year.

I want velocity and I want strikeouts. I want free agents that can offer those things, otherwise I'd rather go with the young guys who can.

 

Not big bucks but Kintzler seems likely to get a 2-3 year deal with some nice change behind it (a welcome raise compared to his last experience with free agency). It's hard to think that he could have gotten that without being a closer (which netted him an all-star spot).

 

Belisle is a little but more up in the air because he's 37 but he'll likely get a guaranteed contract somewhere, which would seem unlikely without the closing experience given his drop in numbers and age. Without that "I can close if you need me to" narrative, he'd be selling himself as a guy on the downslope.

 

I'm with you on getting someone young with more K potential but even there, the Twins may be able to attract someone looking to bet on themselves for a year by being able to offer a clear path to a closing job. Baseball is changing to value non-closers more but they still give the big money to guys who pitch the 9th. Seems like something the Twins and a free agent could exploit.


#39 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:24 PM

I still maintain that your closer should be your third best reliever so no, I don’t believe the Twins need a “dominant” closer.
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#40 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:26 PM

I would not want to stake my playoff chances on a Kintzler level arm. Don't get me wrong, he has value. But if he is the top of the pecking order for our pen, then I can't see the talent level showing much improvement. The best hope is that some of the MiLB guys make the next step. The odds of that are greater than the team spending the kind of money experienced talent would receive.

I think it’s wrong-headed to believe the closer is the top of the bullpen pecking order in the first place. I hope the front office feels the same way.

Find a good reliever for the ninth but he shouldn’t be the best reliever in the pen.
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