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Go Bold: Trade for Gerrit Cole

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#1 Vanimal46

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:14 PM

As we're all discussing ways to improve the pitching staff, one name seems to be forgotten around here... Gerrit Cole. 

The Pirates are at a cross-road with their franchise. After 3 years in a row making the playoffs earlier this decade, they've failed to have a winning record the last 2 seasons. They need to decide what direction they want to go as a franchise, as some of their key players over the years are aging, and about to become free agents in the next year or 2. 

 

Gerrit Cole has 2 years of arbitration remaining before hitting the open market in 2020. He's 27 years old and has been fairly durable during his career, without any significant arm injuries in his past. His velocity readings are quite consistent since his MLB debut in 2013. 

 

Looking into their prospect situation, only 2 middle IF prospects made John Sickels' top 10. Kevin Newman, ranked #5 on Sickels' list looks a lot like Engelb Vielma.... A defense first, minimal bat player. Cole Tucker, ranked #10 on Sickels' list appears to have more promise with the bat, but still a year or 2 away. At the MLB level, Jordy Mercer is signed for 1 more season. 

 

This may be a good route if the Pirates choose to rebuild by trading McCutchen and Cole. 

 


One of Rosario or Kepler + Nick Gordon + Mejia for Cole. Does that get it done?

 

 

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#2 Mike Sixel

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:24 PM

I predict the Pirates try one more year, and if it isn't working, they deal at the deadline.

 

I think I'd rather have Archer for a similar package.....

 

edit: no idea if those trades are even viable.

Edited by Mike Sixel, 16 October 2017 - 12:24 PM.

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There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#3 drjim

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:25 PM

That's a little steep in my mind. I'm not sure the Twins would need to add on to Rosario or Kepler. Cole is solid but not *that* good. Good low end 2.

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#4 Mike Sixel

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:26 PM

Would you rather have Lynn and Rosario, or Cole and some FA OF?

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There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#5 gunnarthor

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:26 PM

It might. Cole is an innings eater but hasn't quite lived up to his hype. I don't know if we'd have to include a ML OFer - they are loaded there with Polanco, Marte, Meadows and McCutchen- and they might want prospects. Gordon, one of Gonsalves/Romero might be enough frankly.

 

Assume Cole is worth 6 WAR over the next two years. Do we want to pay with two top 100 prospects? That's probably about the price.

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#6 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:26 PM

I like the idea of getting Cole, but I'm not a fan of trading Rosario or Kepler as a main piece, nor would I see them trying to acquire either unless they are making win now moves (which I assume means not trading Cole). I guess a lot of this depends on where the Pirates are in their own rebuild cycle. Cole likely won't benefit them the next two years, so a trade for now makes sense, but they will probably want some high end minor league talent...I'll spit ball here:

 

Gordon - got give value to get value.Not a fan, and that suddenly makes extending Dozier more of a priority (or a 2 year stop gap for Palacios), but well worth it.

 

I could see Mejia as a piece, but I wouldn't be surprised if they pushed more for some of our AA arms. I'd say Gonsalves at a minimum, and I could see them asking for Romero as well. I'd probably be willing to let one of them go and see if they would take a guy like Jorge instead.

 

I still think you'd probably need a lotto ticket in low A...

 

Do you think a package of Gordon, Gonsalves or Romero, Jorge, and a guy like Edwar Colina might pull it off?

 

Edit... and yes, Archer is probably preferred

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#7 Vanimal46

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:27 PM

 

That's a little steep in my mind. I'm not sure the Twins would need to add on to Rosario or Kepler. Cole is solid but not *that* good. Good low end 2.

 

It may be too steep. I was just trying to make it more realistic than (insert struggling Twins' prospect here) + Duensing for Cole proposals that we've seen before. 

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#8 Vanimal46

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:30 PM

 

Would you rather have Lynn and Rosario, or Cole and some FA OF?

 

Probably the latter, honestly. I believe in Cole being a top of the rotation pitcher more than Lynn being a top of the rotation pitcher. 

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#9 markos

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:38 PM

 

Would you rather have Lynn and Rosario, or Cole and some FA OF?

Cole and some FA OF.

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#10 Mike Sixel

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:41 PM

Actually, someone above makes a good point, they have good OF prospects.....I'd guess it would be Keplerand 1 minor league player, or three minor leaguers, if they deal Cole.

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#11 drjim

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:07 PM

 

Would you rather have Lynn and Rosario, or Cole and some FA OF?

 

I would probably take the latter, but it would be a hit to the OF defense with the options that are floating out there. And they would probably also want to make sure they get a veteran DH. There are certainly some cheap corner OFs that are available to bridge the gap until Lewis is ready, and I think Granite could get 150-200 PAs in this scenario as well.

 

I could see the Pirates considering a move like this in conjunction with flipping McCutchen elsewhere as more of a retool than a full rebuild.

Edited by drjim, 16 October 2017 - 01:07 PM.

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#12 drjim

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:14 PM

Cole is also estimated to make about $7.5mil next year, so there would potentially be space to trade for him AND sign Lynn/Cobb, and replace the corner OF with a cheaper option to combine with Granite. Could probably still pull off a decent reliever too.

 

It would be a much stronger rotation with a little bit weaker lineup.

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#13 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:20 PM

 

Actually, someone above makes a good point, they have good OF prospects.....I'd guess it would be Keplerand 1 minor league player, or three minor leaguers, if they deal Cole.

 

Not really in the high minors.

 

They have some good ones down further, but in the high minors you're looking at Granite and Wade. The problem with moving Kepler or Rosario is that creates a hole in the short term. If they want to spend money to plug the hole they created, I'm fine with it, but I just don't see a team in win now mode trading a young, average to above starting OF with no real replacement in house.

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#14 markos

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:25 PM

 

Do you think a package of Gordon, Gonsalves or Romero, Jorge, and a guy like Edwar Colina might pull it off?

 

Edit... and yes, Archer is probably preferred

I think that is a fair deal, but I'm not certain it is a winning deal. It is hard to say how many win-now or win-soon teams would get into the bidding for Cole. Theoretically, the Dodgers, Yankees, Cardinals, Braves, Brewers, Blue Jays, Indians and Nationals could outbid that offer if they so desired. But many of those teams might sit out the Cole bidding for various reasons (need/performance/health). That's one of the reasons why I think the Twins have a better chance to acquire Cole than Archer. No team is passing on Archer.

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#15 Mike Sixel

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:25 PM

 

Not really in the high minors.

 

They have some good ones down further, but in the high minors you're looking at Granite and Wade. The problem with moving Kepler or Rosario is that creates a hole in the short term. If they want to spend money to plug the hole they created, I'm fine with it, but I just don't see a team in win now mode trading a young, average to above starting OF with no real replacement in house.

 

they being Pittsburgh, not MN.....

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There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#16 GP830

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:37 PM

Kepler+ Gordon for Cole + McCutchen.

 

We get a veteran bat in RF, and a good young starter. They get younger and cheaper in the outfield, salary relief, and strong infield depth.

 

???

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#17 Vanimal46

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:42 PM

 

Kepler+ Gordon for Cole + McCutchen.

 

We get a veteran bat in RF, and a good young starter. They get younger and cheaper in the outfield, salary relief, and strong infield depth.

 

???

 

Way too light. No chance that package nets both players. McCutchen had a very nice bounce back year and will net a solid return of prospects. 

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#18 Mike Sixel

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:45 PM

 

Kepler+ Gordon for Cole + McCutchen.

 

We get a veteran bat in RF, and a good young starter. They get younger and cheaper in the outfield, salary relief, and strong infield depth.

 

???

 

Kepler, Gordon, a good AA pitcher, and Mejia and whatever hitter they want from the minors MIGHT get that done.

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There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#19 GP830

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:50 PM

 

Kepler, Gordon, a good AA pitcher, and Mejia and whatever hitter they want from the minors MIGHT get that done.

In your opinion-- would you like that trade for the Twins or would that be an overpay?


#20 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 02:11 PM

 

In your opinion-- would you like that trade for the Twins or would that be an overpay?

 

Depends on how many years McCutchen has left, but probably not...That's definitely a win now move.

 

Imagine an OF with Buxton, McCutchen, and Rosario. That's 3 CFs covering a ton of ground.

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