Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: Twins Daily Awards 2017: Most Valuable Player

brian dozier byron buxton ervin santana joe mauer eddie rosario
  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#21 EddieMatthews

EddieMatthews

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 98 posts

Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:44 PM

I had Buxton as MVP.  IMHO, he single-handedly stopped at least a dozen pitcher meltdowns with his defense.  Add to that the impact as a hitter and as a base-runner and BB was a game changer.  The Twins record could have been 73-89 and worse than all AL teams except Chi and Det.  

 

My only issue with Dozier is that he is in the 1-hole.  He's not a lead-off guy.  He should be batting with ducks on the pond.  With his HR numbers his RBI totals should be triple digits.  The lead-off spot should be filled by management with someone who excels at getting on base.

 

Having said that, Dozier deserves credit for improved hitting, clutch hitting, leadership, and power.  This may be the last time Dozier leads the Twins in HR.  Sano, Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Escobar all have a shot at most HR.


#22 stringer bell

stringer bell

    WAR? What is it good for?

  • Twins Mods
  • 7,883 posts
  • LocationZumbrota MN

Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:31 PM

Dozier was a pretty good leadoff guy this year. Yes, he hit 34 homers, many of them solos, but he had his top OBP and he worked the count quite well.

  • Dantes929 likes this

#23 Parker Hageman

Parker Hageman

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,526 posts

Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:48 AM

I feel like if I would have replaced "aren't at the top of any lists" with "are average to a little bit below average," I would have saved you a lot of words.

 

 

There is a significant difference between "not at the top of any lists" and "below average" by those lists at the position, IMO.

 

I was happy to add some words. It felt like a glossed over section, not just here but in the conversations about Dozier in general. There are four advanced defensive stats that suggest he is below average and I believe that should be a part of the discussion when contemplating his defensive capabilities. I know a lot of people want to go by the eye test on defense -- and Dozier seems to do well there -- this is that additional layer to consider. 

 

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." -- Jim Bouton, "Ball Four"


#24 twinfan

twinfan

    Elizabethton

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:37 AM

Had Sano been healthy all season, he would have been the MVP. I would lean toward Santana slightly over Mauer this year with Dozier third over Buxton and Rosario or Kinzler fifth. Buxton is most improved and gets the defensive nod as well. Just my opinion.

  • EddieMatthews likes this

#25 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 2,476 posts

Posted 13 October 2017 - 04:10 PM

I had Buxton as MVP. IMHO, he single-handedly stopped at least a dozen pitcher meltdowns with his defense. Add to that the impact as a hitter and as a base-runner and BB was a game changer. The Twins record could have been 73-89 and worse than all AL teams except Chi and Det.

My only issue with Dozier is that he is in the 1-hole. He's not a lead-off guy. He should be batting with ducks on the pond. With his HR numbers his RBI totals should be triple digits. The lead-off spot should be filled by management with someone who excels at getting on base.

Having said that, Dozier deserves credit for improved hitting, clutch hitting, leadership, and power. This may be the last time Dozier leads the Twins in HR. Sano, Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Escobar all have a shot at most HR.


I suspect that is why, at the end of the season, the Twins had Robbie Grossman and his obp in the 9 hole. So Dozier had a better chance to hit with runners on.

#26 jimbo92107

jimbo92107

    Señor Member

  • Members
  • 3,550 posts
  • LocationSan Diego

Posted 14 October 2017 - 11:17 AM

 

I don't have an exact definition of "Valuable" either, but for me it comes down to a couple of things. Who was most indispensible this year? Who would get the most interest from other GMs if you offered a trade? Either definition of valuable leads me to Buxton, with Santana a respectable second.

There is a third definition of "valuable" that does not require a rigid definition, yet is still quite significant. I would call it something like "subtractive value." If the Twins had traded Dozier in the off-season last year, how would the team this season have fared without him? It's a speculative point because literally you can't say for sure. You could say they would have several fewer home runs, several fewer hits, several fewer stolen bases. Assuming Polanco moved to 2B and somebody like Adrianza played SS, the defense might be roughly equivalent.

 

On the other hand, who would have spoken up when the front office traded Jaime Garcia? Would the Twins even have contended for the last Wild Card spot? Who would have stepped up as the team leader, Sano? Santana? It has to be somebody that can express himself, in English. Mauer would be nice, but he has never been an outspoken player. If the whole team spoke Spanish, I would guess that Eddie Rosario would be the team leader. But right now, the team leader is Brian Dozier.

Baseball is easy. Just watch!


#27 Dantes929

Dantes929

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,721 posts

Posted Yesterday, 03:02 PM

 

There is a third definition of "valuable" that does not require a rigid definition, yet is still quite significant. I would call it something like "subtractive value." If the Twins had traded Dozier in the off-season last year, how would the team this season have fared without him? It's a speculative point because literally you can't say for sure. You could say they would have several fewer home runs, several fewer hits, several fewer stolen bases. Assuming Polanco moved to 2B and somebody like Adrianza played SS, the defense might be roughly equivalent.

 

On the other hand, who would have spoken up when the front office traded Jaime Garcia? Would the Twins even have contended for the last Wild Card spot? Who would have stepped up as the team leader, Sano? Santana? It has to be somebody that can express himself, in English. Mauer would be nice, but he has never been an outspoken player. If the whole team spoke Spanish, I would guess that Eddie Rosario would be the team leader. But right now, the team leader is Brian Dozier.

Subtractive value....I get it but boy that's a tough one.If Sano had not gotten hurt he probably gets MVP and you would be talking about subtractive value. If fact Sano did get hurt and Escobar from that point hit nearly as well as he did and if Sano doesn't get hurt maybe Polanco and Escobar don't get on a roll and maybe Sano slumps and the whole thing ends up that Sano getting hurt had large additive value. 

Don't Sweat the Small Stuff ... and it's all small stuff.


#28 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 22,768 posts

Posted Yesterday, 04:29 PM

Penalizing Dozier's value because there were possible replacements on the roster, imo, makes zero sense.

 

to me "how much did he contribute to winning" is the question. 

 

Dozier

Buxton

.....

.....

.....

Rosario and ESan

Mauer

No one else is close, though Sano would be 1, 2, or 3 had he been healthy.

 

 

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#29 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 11,020 posts
  • LocationThe charred ruins of BYTO

Posted Yesterday, 08:36 PM

The vote tally looks like a lot like the who is the MVP thread from last month. It is truly remarkable that so many guys were worthy. Ultimately, I'd have given it to BD, Mauer, or ESAN and not Buxton. If second half Buxton had been there in the first half, this would have been a no brainer. He wasn't. Dozier and Santana were far more consistent and far less replaceable.

 

That said, I have a sneaking suspicion that Buxton will win has fair share of these over (hopefully) the next decade or so...




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: brian dozier, byron buxton, ervin santana, joe mauer, eddie rosario