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Neil Allen Fired

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#21 spinowner

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:57 PM

I am not surprised by this, and it will be interesting to see whom Molitor and Falvine pursue and eventually sign. However, I think minor league pitching coaching is more important than major league pitching coaching. With a few rare exceptions like Bert Blyleven or Dwight Gooden that's where pitchers become pitchers. It's in the minor leagues where the approach to developing pitchers really needs to change in this organization. The goal would be to have the major league coach doing little more than making fine-tuning adjustments.

Edited by spinowner, 09 October 2017 - 07:58 PM.

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#22 Deduno Abides

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 08:41 PM

I am not surprised by this, and it will be interesting to see whom Molitor and Falvine pursue and eventually sign. However, I think minor league pitching coaching is more important than major league pitching coaching. With a few rare exceptions like Bert Blyleven or Dwight Gooden that's where pitchers become pitchers. It's in the minor leagues where the approach to developing pitchers really needs to change in this organization. The goal would be to have the major league coach doing little more than making fine-tuning adjustments.


The minor league coordinator was let go a few weeks ago. Falvey probably has ideas for how these two positions should work together and who should fill the openings.
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#23 Twins33

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 08:58 PM

Was he no longer considered instrumental in the development of the Rays pitchers? I thought that pedigree was why he was hired in the first place.

that was the old front office that hired him though. Ryan and Molitor didn't meet Allen in person until Twinsfest, after they hired him. He was hired based on recommendations and likely multiple phone conversations.

The new guys may not feel the same and it could be part of the reason why he's gone. They gave him a test run and decided he wasn't their guy. I'm completely fine with it. He didn't have a lot to work with, so it's not all his fault, but I was hoping this would happen.
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#24 sftwinsfan

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:01 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if this is what took the Molitor negotiations awhile to wrap up.My guess is Paul showed some loyalty, didn't want to let him go, but it eventually came down to if you want a new deal this is the way it's going to be.  

 

I think it's the right move, nobody on their pitching staff was really making any strides forward.Berrios seemed to be reverting back in the 2nd half.Meijia didn't seem to show any improvement.Pressly and Duffey have some talent, but haven't been able to translate that to success at the mlb level.Not necessarily Allen's fault, but maybe the could find a guy who could make an impact.  

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#25 beckmt

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:57 PM

Liked Allen, maybe not the right fit.Good luck to him.

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#26 The Wise One

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:47 PM

Aldaberto did not improve in terms of consistency and strike zone

When established players struggled Allen did not seem to be able to get them back. See Duffey, PresslySantiago

The gm selected Haley, Allen couldn't make him a mlb pitcher


#27 jimbo92107

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:59 PM

I just hope the FO has some idea whom they're going to hire next. Seems like the Twins haven't had a great pitching coach in a long while. 

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#28 Platoon

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:27 AM

So did Molitor, Allens immediate supervisor make the call to Florida? Or Falvine? (the devil made me do this) :)
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#29 Blackjack

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:06 AM

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is what took the Molitor negotiations awhile to wrap up.My guess is Paul showed some loyalty, didn't want to let him go, but it eventually came down to if you want a new deal this is the way it's going to be.  

 

 

This. I would also think that Molitor would want a lot of say in who the new pitching coach is going to be, since he'll be working with him on a daily basis.


#30 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:27 AM

Well, it kinda needed to happen. It's unfortunate but Allen simply wasn't getting results with this staff, even when adjusted for their meager talent levels.

 

And I was really excited when Allen was brought on board.

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#31 Loosey

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:52 AM

It isn't a real surprise this happened.Falvine were given a year to evaluate things.I assume he would have been let go last year but with Molitor in limbo for a season it wouldn't have made sense to fire and hire a pitching coach then hire a new manager who would possibly have wanted to bring in his own staff.Molitor survived and got extended so now the front office can start cleaning house and building the model they envision now that they have some stability for a few years.

 

I think this off-season could be fun.For once they aren't rebuilding.Finally they can just make improvements where they are needed in order to take the next step.Start with coaches, in a month or so start improving the roster.  

 

The next few months could define what Falvine era is going to be.If Pohlad opens up the pocket book a bit (which he claims he has in the past) this Front Office could do some things Terry Ryan never did.I have stated on here a few times before I Terry Ryan was frugal with the Pohlad's money more than Pohlad didn't let him spend.We will find out shortly.


#32 dbminn

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:18 AM

The coaching staff will be an interesting mix after they replace Allen. I'm not sure, but I think you can separate the coaches into separate camps:

 

Strategy/Teaching - Falvine's group: Rowson, Pickler, New Pitching Coach

In-Game/Relationships - Old School Twins: Molitor, Smith, Glynn, Guardado, Hernandez

Other - Vavra

 

Now that Allen is gone, the FO will control hitting/pitching philosophy throughout the organization. They will rely on Molitor to manage the players, media and relationships at the MLB level. 

 

All of this is speculation. Glynn and Smith provide help with defensive technique, so it's not a perfect fit. And I don't even know what role Vavra plays. Still, it makes sense that Allen's replacement was non-negotiable for Molitor. 


#33 Deduno Abides

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:23 AM

Allen's comments after being let go were respectful and realistic. I'm sure he'll get another job. Hopefully it is a better fit for his skills and allows him to continue to grow his career.
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#34 Brandon27

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:26 AM

Just throwing it out there why not get Bert Blyleven out of press box into the dugout as the pitching coach he does it anyways for world baseball Classic or another one comes to mind is FrankViola I do believe he is the pitching coach in the minors for the Mets 


#35 Deduno Abides

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:29 AM

I just hope the FO has some idea whom they're going to hire next. Seems like the Twins haven't had a great pitching coach in a long while.


Rick Anderson's system had some good years, until the league changed and he and/or his bosses refused to change along with it. In some ways, Allen's hiring was based on a similar, insular way of thinking, of trying to implement a new "system," without taking into account the changes in the competitive landscape.
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#36 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:34 AM

LaTroy Hawkins is needed daily in the clubhouse in some capacity.

#37 ashburyjohn

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:36 AM

Falvey seems to prefer a curveball emphasis, Allen was a changeup guy.

Somehow I don't think it quite comes down to this. Changeups and breaking pitches are complementary, and both can fit into a repertoire. Moreover, it seems to me one is a skill, the other is more of a talent - with both needing hard work and repetition to master of course. I doubt either Allen or the front office is extreme in espousing one over the other.

 

Allen was certainly known for suggesting the change, to anyone who would listen. FalVine may like breaking pitches. But a preference wouldn't be a dealbreaker. Allen didn't tell Berrios to ditch the bender.

 

I think it just came down to results. Allen's job was to find answers, and at the end of the day he didn't find enough.

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#38 SweetOne69

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:37 AM

 

Just throwing it out there why not get Bert Blyleven out of press box into the dugout as the pitching coach he does it anyways for world baseball Classic or another one comes to mind is FrankViola I do believe he is the pitching coach in the minors for the Mets 

First, the WBC is only a 1 month gig every 3 years.

 

Second, why would Blyleven want to give up his cushy 100 games/year gig for the stressfull rigors of pitching coach.

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#39 beckmt

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:43 AM

I believe Frankie Viola was let go by the Mets(I could be wrong).Blyleven seems to be able to get results with the Dutch pitching staff, so he would be a good choice, but do not think he will give up the cushy booth.  

Talent level may not be as good as we were lead to believe, so hope the new FO finds good teachers for the pitching staff.


#40 yarnivek1972

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:15 AM

How about Phil Hughes for pitching coach?Most expensive one, EVER.

 

But seriously, there is some speculation about the future of John Farrell in Boston. Could mean The Big Train, Carl Willis is out too.4 Cy Young winners in 12 seasons as a MLB pitching coach.