Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

RH RP FA

  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 26,739 posts

Posted 05 October 2017 - 09:50 AM

heh....that title might be obtuse on purpose....there are 50 names here. I will endeavor to analyze them throughout the day and next week....

 

Right-Handed Relievers

Matt Albers (35)
Al Alburquerque (32)
John Axford (35)
Andrew Bailey (34)
Tony Barnette (34) — $4MM club option with a $250K buyout
Matt Belisle (38)
Joaquin Benoit (40)
Blaine Boyer (36)
Trevor Cahill (30)
Jesse Chavez (34)
Tyler Clippard (33)
Steve Cishek (32)
Wade Davis (32)
Neftali Feliz (30)
Dillon Gee (32)
Jeanmar Gomez (30)
Luke Gregerson (34)
Jason Grilli (41)
David Hernandez (33)
Greg Holland (32) — $15MM player option
Tommy Hunter (31)
Craig Kimbrel (30) — $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Brandon Kintzler (33)
Mark Lowe (35)
Chris Martin (32)
Dustin McGowan (36)
Brandon Morrow (33)
Jason Motte (36)
Peter Moylan (39)
Pat Neshek (37)
Juan Nicasio (31)
Bud Norris (33)
Seung-hwan Oh (35)
Chad Qualls (39)
Addison Reed (29)
Fernando Rodney (41)
Francisco Rodriguez (36)
Sergio Romo (35)
Fernando Salas (33)
Bryan Shaw (30)
Joe Smith (34)
Craig Stammen (34)
Drew Storen (30)
Huston Street (34) — $10MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Anthony Swarzak (32)
Koji Uehara (43)
Carlos Villanueva (34)
Jordan Walden (30)
Tom Wilhelmsen (34)
Chris Young (39)

  • Deduno Abides and DelusionalTwinsFan like this

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#2 Doomtints

Doomtints

    Joe's Shades™

  • Members
  • 2,691 posts

Posted 05 October 2017 - 10:36 AM

Lots of short term options due to age, not generally what the Twins look for in pitching.

 

My hope is they get Kintzler back and 2-3 other guys.


#3 Bill Brown69

Bill Brown69

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 203 posts

Posted 05 October 2017 - 11:00 AM

There are only 5-7 that even move my needle at all. 

 

I think the BP could be fixed(maybe even great) with 100% health among the minor leaguers we have coming up but I know that is as risky as any of these lottery tickets. 

 

Pitching, pitching and even more pitching is the key, just so hard to do.

  • beckmt, tarheeltwinsfan and DelusionalTwinsFan like this

#4 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 8,783 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 05 October 2017 - 11:49 AM

Should get one decent vet and a higher upside closer type - an older guy on a short term deal is even better.

  • Doomtints likes this
Papers...business papers.

#5 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 12,475 posts

Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:00 PM

Perhaps it would be better to look at the free agent starters list to find relievers. Many of the best relievers were guys who were well thought of young starters who just couldn't make it work in the rotation. Wade Davis, Andrew Miller, Mike Minor, Archie Bradley, Raisel Iglesias, Brad Hand, Juan Nicasio, Alex Comome.

I vote to go get guys like Wily Peralta and Asher Wojciechowski who already had good velocity as starters and stick them in the pen to start the year.
  • tarheeltwinsfan and DelusionalTwinsFan like this

#6 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,321 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:09 PM

I wanted Greg Holland last year, so that interest remains the same. $15 MM is a lot of money to decline, but it's probably his last time to cash in on a long term deal. 

 

I'm very interested in Bryan Shaw too. He's been a workhorse for a long time, and it would take away talent from Cleveland. Win win. 

  • Twins33 and Oldgoat_MN like this

#7 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 26,739 posts

Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:21 PM

 

Perhaps it would be better to look at the free agent starters list to find relievers. Many of the best relievers were guys who were well thought of young starters who just couldn't make it work in the rotation. Wade Davis, Andrew Miller, Mike Minor, Archie Bradley, Raisel Iglesias, Brad Hand, Juan Nicasio, Alex Comome.

I vote to go get guys like Wily Peralta and Asher Wojciechowski who already had good velocity as starters and stick them in the pen to start the year.

 

as long as they don't expect to be paid like starters in FA, I could endorse that. Then again, I'd endorse the Twins not waiting until their own pitcher are 1000140 years old to make that decision.....they waited a year too long on Rogers, for example. Turley should not be a starter. It's not clear that some of their vaunted AA pitchers are really starters....

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#8 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 12,475 posts

Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:49 PM

Yes, the teams that can most quickly decide which pitchers are destined for the bullpen, pitcher reluctance be damned, have a great advantage.

#9 Doctor Wu

Doctor Wu

    Ft Myers

  • Members
  • 471 posts

Posted 08 October 2017 - 06:46 AM

A lot of greybeards on that list, but some interesting names, a few of which had very good years in 2017, including our old friend Anthony Swarzak. Just goes to show, you never know how some of these players might perform with a new team. That said, I'm also hoping for a change in pitching coach next year.


#10 GP830

GP830

    Ft Myers

  • Members
  • 466 posts
  • LocationMinneapolis

Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:15 AM

Greg Holland elects FA. He'd be a good get. 


#11 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6,031 posts

Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:18 AM

Holland and Shaw. I like the potential bullpen that can come from the minors as well.


#12 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Twins World Champions in 2019

  • Members
  • 9,618 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:32 AM

I'd sing 2 of these guys: 

Brandon Morrow to a 2 year plus an option,who has the stuff to be a dominant closer (2.06 ERA, 1.55 FIP, 29.4% K%, 24.1% K-BB%, 0.92 WHIP/.282 BABIP, 97.7 mph FB average).

 

Drew Storen to a back loaded 3 year deal with the last2 being team options, who finally took care of the issue that has been bothering him the last 2 seasons and will be ready likely by next August.

  • tarheeltwinsfan and DelusionalTwinsFan like this
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#13 twinsfanstreif

twinsfanstreif

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 610 posts

Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:32 AM

I would love to get Kintzler back but realistically we need at least one or two other guys. I personally want to think the FO saw the potential in our offense and how horrible our bullpen was and will go hard in FA at improving that area. Kintzler seems like a solid choice to get back because he seemed to like it here and he was pretty good but I would like to see him as a set up man and we spend big on someone like Kimbrel. Is it crazy? Maybe but something's got to give and the only way this unit improves is through FA. Remember we don't even have a closer for next year and no way we re-sign Belisle to fill that roll again

#14 howieramone2

howieramone2

    Just say no to myths!

  • Members
  • 1,210 posts
  • LocationMaple Grove/Schaumburg

Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:52 AM

 

I would love to get Kintzler back but realistically we need at least one or two other guys. I personally want to think the FO saw the potential in our offense and how horrible our bullpen was and will go hard in FA at improving that area. Kintzler seems like a solid choice to get back because he seemed to like it here and he was pretty good but I would like to see him as a set up man and we spend big on someone like Kimbrel. Is it crazy? Maybe but something's got to give and the only way this unit improves is through FA. Remember we don't even have a closer for next year and no way we re-sign Belisle to fill that roll again

I would sign Kintzler and also bring back Belisle. They will keep us in the hunt until our future closer surfaces and save us from overspending. I've said before, at some point in time, pitching becomes a numbers game. We have the numbers working for us. 

I was recently advised by a representative of the board's female caucas, that the term panties in a bundle is not acceptable. Until further notification, please use the term boxer shorts in a bundle. Fact is stranger than fiction.


#15 twinsfanstreif

twinsfanstreif

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 610 posts

Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:13 PM

I would sign Kintzler and also bring back Belisle. They will keep us in the hunt until our future closer surfaces and save us from overspending. I've said before, at some point in time, pitching becomes a numbers game. We have the numbers working for us.


Do you really want to go into next year with the same exact bullpen situation as last year? It has been a thorn in our side for years now and even spending high draft picks on RPs has not worked out. Jay, Chargois, Bard, and Burdi have all had chronic major health concerns and can't be relied on to ever make a major impact because of it. Of all of them Jay had less in the injury camp but has not really proven himself with ample time to do so. I just hope he can contribute at all at this point. Who else are we talking to step it up? Curtiss? He was terrible in his call up. Hildenburger? He's more of a solid Neshek type of guy, not a closer. Busenitz? He was pretty good but is also 27 and did absolutely nothing up until this year, can he be trusted to be our future? I just don't see another way other than crossing our fingers and wasting a few years hoping someone steps it up
  • Thrylos and Mike Sixel like this

#16 beckmt

beckmt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,147 posts

Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:03 PM

You need bodies.I am hoping to get some relievers that get K's, not the pitch to contact type.Hopefully some of the minor leaguers come through, as I do not see large expenditures here unless we want to sign a closer(those are expensive).


#17 70charger

70charger

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,575 posts

Posted 13 October 2017 - 04:51 PM

 

Do you really want to go into next year with the same exact bullpen situation as last year? It has been a thorn in our side for years now and even spending high draft picks on RPs has not worked out. Jay, Chargois, Bard, and Burdi have all had chronic major health concerns and can't be relied on to ever make a major impact because of it. Of all of them Jay had less in the injury camp but has not really proven himself with ample time to do so. I just hope he can contribute at all at this point. Who else are we talking to step it up? Curtiss? He was terrible in his call up. Hildenburger? He's more of a solid Neshek type of guy, not a closer. Busenitz? He was pretty good but is also 27 and did absolutely nothing up until this year, can he be trusted to be our future? I just don't see another way other than crossing our fingers and wasting a few years hoping someone steps it up

 

I agree that we should not be going into next season with the same situation. Go sign, say, two very solid shutdown types.

 

I just want to pedantically argue, because iit is an Internet forum, about your characterizations of some of the guys you mentioned.

 

"Curtiss? He was terrible in his call up." Eh, not really. Sure, his ERA was tragic, but His FIP was about half of what his ERA was, and he only had 10 appearances, so it's not like the numbers have stabilized. Also, his WHIP was 1.26 (which is almost identical to the career WHIP of the Twins' closer for most of the year, FWIW), and his strikeout rate was around 10K/9IP. I actually think he's a great candidate to take that step forward next year.

 

"Hildenburger? He's more of a solid Neshek type of guy, not a closer." I think you're underrating Neshek. Compare him to the guy who closed most of the year for the Twins, and he's better in basically every single category. The only reason Kintzler has more saves than Neshek is that the Twins didn't employ Neshek (or, by extension, anyone better suited to the role) last season. 

 

"Busenitz? He was pretty good but is also 27 and did absolutely nothing up until this year" He had a WHIP under 1.00 in half a season in the majors. 26 years old (he was 26 this season, by the way) for relievers doesn't mean anything to me. Going back to Neshek, take a look at when he debuted in the majors. Looks like he was 25, turning 26 that same September. Age doesn't seem to be nearly the same concern for relievers, especially ones under team control at serf salaries. Busenitz will probably regress a bit, along with his sub-2.00 ERA, but I don't see why he's not a candidate to be a solid bullpen member next year.

 

Am I off base here? 

 

I think the Twins have solid options, without even relying on the sick bay that is our minor leagues. The cupboard isn't bare. Just put a couple of top guys at the back end of this pen and I think we're good to go. 

  • KGB, tarheeltwinsfan and curt1965 like this

#18 old nurse

old nurse

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,462 posts

Posted 13 October 2017 - 05:22 PM

 

I'd sing 2 of these guys: 

Brandon Morrow to a 2 year plus an option,who has the stuff to be a dominant closer (2.06 ERA, 1.55 FIP, 29.4% K%, 24.1% K-BB%, 0.92 WHIP/.282 BABIP, 97.7 mph FB average).

 

Drew Storen to a back loaded 3 year deal with the last2 being team options, who finally took care of the issue that has been bothering him the last 2 seasons and will be ready likely by next August.

sibg or sign

 

Edited by old nurse, 13 October 2017 - 05:23 PM.

  • tvagle likes this

#19 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Haighters gonna Haight

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,363 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 13 October 2017 - 05:30 PM

sibg or sign

Southern Illinois Baseball Group, or Scottish Intercollegiate Guidelines Network?

  • tvagle likes this

A slim chance equals a fat chance, yet a wise man and a wise guy are opposites.


#20 twinsfanstreif

twinsfanstreif

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 610 posts

Posted 13 October 2017 - 07:01 PM

I agree that we should not be going into next season with the same situation. Go sign, say, two very solid shutdown types.
 
I just want to pedantically argue, because iit is an Internet forum, about your characterizations of some of the guys you mentioned.
 
"Curtiss? He was terrible in his call up." Eh, not really. Sure, his ERA was tragic, but His FIP was about half of what his ERA was, and he only had 10 appearances, so it's not like the numbers have stabilized. Also, his WHIP was 1.26 (which is almost identical to the career WHIP of the Twins' closer for most of the year, FWIW), and his strikeout rate was around 10K/9IP. I actually think he's a great candidate to take that step forward next year.
 
"Hildenburger? He's more of a solid Neshek type of guy, not a closer." I think you're underrating Neshek. Compare him to the guy who closed most of the year for the Twins, and he's better in basically every single category. The only reason Kintzler has more saves than Neshek is that the Twins didn't employ Neshek (or, by extension, anyone better suited to the role) last season. 
 
"Busenitz? He was pretty good but is also 27 and did absolutely nothing up until this year" He had a WHIP under 1.00 in half a season in the majors. 26 years old (he was 26 this season, by the way) for relievers doesn't mean anything to me. Going back to Neshek, take a look at when he debuted in the majors. Looks like he was 25, turning 26 that same September. Age doesn't seem to be nearly the same concern for relievers, especially ones under team control at serf salaries. Busenitz will probably regress a bit, along with his sub-2.00 ERA, but I don't see why he's not a candidate to be a solid bullpen member next year.
 
Am I off base here? 
 
I think the Twins have solid options, without even relying on the sick bay that is our minor leagues. The cupboard isn't bare. Just put a couple of top guys at the back end of this pen and I think we're good to go.


I wasn't saying those guys aren't solid bullpen members, they just aren't really closer or even set up candidates. To be fair I never really viewed Kintzler as a closer type either