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Monitor: Manager of the Year and Fired?

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#1 caninatl04

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 12:48 AM

Aside from the first team to go from 100 losses to the playoffs (sort of), they may also be the first team to fire a manager just before that manager wins manager of the year.

Maybe Molitor can turn the Tigers around.

#2 akmanak

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 12:56 AM

Fire him. He can't manage a bullpen and is way over his head.
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#3 Platoon

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:49 AM

It's going to be an interesting situation. MOY or not. While I imagine the Pohlad Protection Policy no longer is in total effect, the remnants of it linger over Falvines head. I would love to see Molitor gone, and since there has not been an iota of leaked speculation about a contract extension of him, it would seem Falvine does also. They have let him dangle in the breeze as a lame duck all year. I wonder if they feel a little like Mark Coyle and the U of M president when the Gophers won their bowl game, and they had already decided to fire the coach? The looks on their faces after the game was priceless.
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#4 old nurse

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:53 AM

Davey Johnson is somewhere having a meltdown because somebody forgot about him.

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#5 Respy

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 05:33 AM

Sorry I don't feel like Molitor deserves a manager-of-the-year.  In his own words, he just doesn't pass the "eye test."  His bullpen usage has been questionable.  His lineup construction is odd and fluctuates constantly.  His play by play calls don't seem to dictate gameflow.  Maybe the players feel otherwise, but I haven't exactly heard a lot of praise from the players toward Molitor.  

 

Any manager who leads my favorite team to the playoffs: I am happy.  But I don't think he'll be in consideration for any awards.

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#6 wsnydes

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 05:45 AM

 

Davey Johnson is somewhere having a meltdown because somebody forgot about him.

Wasn't Joe Girardi in the same situation in Miami?  

 

I'm not a Molitor fan at all.  Bullpen management, odd lineups, refusal to platoon players; I think this team wins despite him.  I think what Platoon said a few posts above makes sense.  If they were serious about extending him, you'd think there would be at least a whiff of conversation about it.

Edited by wsnydes, 25 September 2017 - 05:56 AM.

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#7 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 05:50 AM

Molitor's insistence on bunting against all statistics and research alone is enough to get him fired. If you are going with a statistically minded team you cannot have a manager who consistently gives away outs while simultaneously reducing the chances of scoring a run.

The work has been done. The data is clear.

If he wants to play 1960's baseball he should do it somewhere else.

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#8 Cory Engelhardt

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 05:53 AM

Can you fire someone who doesn't have a contract? It isn't really a firing if he just coached/played out his contract and didn't get offered a new deal, right?
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#9 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 05:54 AM

 

Wasn't Joe Girardi in the same situation in Miami?  

Girardi managed the Marlins in 2006. They finished 4th in their division with a 78-84 record.

Edit: and yes, he was NL Manager of the Year for 2006.

Edited by Oldgoat_MN, 25 September 2017 - 06:01 AM.

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#10 mazeville

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 06:15 AM

Molitor is not going to get fired.

 

And he does not deserve to be fired. They are on the verge of being the only team to go from 100-plus losses to the playoffs. They've improved by more than 20 wins this year, more than even the most optimistic prognostications.

 

I do not see the problem with his bullpen usage, given that his bullpen has been little more than a bunch of spare parts. His lineup construction is fine. 

 

I vehemently disagree with his bunting tactics, but it's hardly the fireable offense people on here say it is. 

 

Numerous players have responded to in-season coaching. The fielding is infinitely better this year. Players like Jorge Polanco and Byron Buxton have gone from busts to season saviors. The team has avoided losing streaks longer than 4 games.

 

Molitor has done wonders without the benefit of much pitching or a bullpen or a lineup that for part of the year was little more than Sano and a collection of underperforming youngsters. Give the dude a break.

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#11 Riverbrian

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 06:15 AM

 

Falvey: Thank you for your efforts but we won't be renewing your contract. 

 

Molitor: What? Why?

 

Falvey: We felt that with the additions of Castro, Gimenez, Belisle, Turley and what's his name. 

 

Molitor: Breslow

 

Falvey: Yes Breslow... We felt that you should have won the AL Central

 

 

Molitor: Do I leave my keys with you?

 

 

 

 

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#12 Blake

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 06:48 AM

 

Molitor's insistence on bunting against all statistics and research alone is enough to get him fired. If you are going with a statistically minded team you cannot have a manager who consistently gives away outs while simultaneously reducing the chances of scoring a run.

The work has been done. The data is clear.

If he wants to play 1960's baseball he should do it somewhere else.

Concur.

 

 

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#13 ThejacKmp

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:04 AM

 

Fire him. He can't manage a bullpen and is way over his head.

 

What bullpen?

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#14 ThejacKmp

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:05 AM

 

Can you fire someone who doesn't have a contract? It isn't really a firing if he just coached/played out his contract and didn't get offered a new deal, right?

 

Dougie seems to think you can.

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#15 ThejacKmp

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:11 AM

 

Molitor is not going to get fired.

 

And he does not deserve to be fired. They are on the verge of being the only team to go from 100-plus losses to the playoffs. They've improved by more than 20 wins this year, more than even the most optimistic prognostications.

 

I do not see the problem with his bullpen usage, given that his bullpen has been little more than a bunch of spare parts. His lineup construction is fine. 

 

I vehemently disagree with his bunting tactics, but it's hardly the fireable offense people on here say it is. 

 

Numerous players have responded to in-season coaching. The fielding is infinitely better this year. Players like Jorge Polanco and Byron Buxton have gone from busts to season saviors. The team has avoided losing streaks longer than 4 games.

 

Molitor has done wonders without the benefit of much pitching or a bullpen or a lineup that for part of the year was little more than Sano and a collection of underperforming youngsters. Give the dude a break.

 

This is how I feel. Every point is spot on. I hate the bunting too but I don't think it's unfixable and the other complaints are typical fan complaints. I've also never heard a single whisper of conflict between Molitor and the front office. He didn't bad mouth them after the trades, he hasn't complained about roster construction even though his job was clearly on the line, there hasn't been any public butting of heads over statistics - it's seemed like a good relationship. 

 

What I think is going to be interesting is, assuming they talk extension with him, how much leverage does he have? Will they offer two years or something bigger? Will they walk away if he wants more? It seems obvious that even if circumstances force the new FO to stick with Molitor, they're not going to want to commit long-term. And I don't know if Molitor has enough of a name to tell them to stuff it and know he'll get another shot with a team as posed for success as the Twins appear to be.

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#16 terrydactyls1947

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:26 AM

Here is an alternative scenario. If I were Molitor, I would take this opportunity to call Bud Grant and say: "You want to spend next summer fishing with me?" I have plenty of money so that isn't an issue. I just took a team of players that that was comprised mostly of guys no one last April would have traded for and led them into the playoffs. I am constantly disparaged by fans for being a poor manager. I think I will just raise a figurative middle finger to everyone and ride off into the sunset. I am too much of a Minnesotan to actually raise a middle finger but the thought is there. However, if the front office comes to me and begs me to stay (and offers me a nice extension), then I might return because I do love the game.
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#17 wsnydes

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:47 AM

 

This is how I feel. Every point is spot on. I hate the bunting too but I don't think it's unfixable and the other complaints are typical fan complaints. I've also never heard a single whisper of conflict between Molitor and the front office. He didn't bad mouth them after the trades, he hasn't complained about roster construction even though his job was clearly on the line, there hasn't been any public butting of heads over statistics - it's seemed like a good relationship. 

 

What I think is going to be interesting is, assuming they talk extension with him, how much leverage does he have? Will they offer two years or something bigger? Will they walk away if he wants more? It seems obvious that even if circumstances force the new FO to stick with Molitor, they're not going to want to commit long-term. And I don't know if Molitor has enough of a name to tell them to stuff it and know he'll get another shot with a team as posed for success as the Twins appear to be.

I think you make good and valid points.  However, I wonder how much analytics plays into this decision.  My guess is quite a bit.  The new FO is far more analytical than what we've seen in these parts previously.  There are areas where Molitor has improved, but I don't know that he embraces the analytics as much as the FO may want him too.  That's speculation on my part, but the amount of bunting that he does call for at any point in a game point in that direction in my opinion.  Molitor's incessant bunting (I agree, not a fireable offense on its own), refusal to platoon players based on their splits and a tendency to use bullpen pitchers against their splits (Boshers and Breslow come to mind).  I don't see those as fan complaints.

 

Just because you don't have talent in the bullpen, it doesn't mean that you can't put the players that you do have in a situation to succeed.  Generally speaking, I think he's done a decent job of overall management by using his best arms in games when they're up and the less talented arms in blowout situations.  That is not my issue I also think that he's gotten a bit better in the second half, but that's also because Busenitz and Hildenberger have emerged.  However, the in-game management is still suspect (see relievers against their splits comment above).  I don't think that he was a great feel for the flow of the game in that regard.  Given the usage of the pen, I think that he's been lucky this year that there hasn't been any significant injuries to the horses in the bullpen.

 

Playing Adrianza in LF despite having Granite on the bench drives me insane.  Adrianza's bat isn't that much of a difference maker.  There's no question that some of the FO moves or lack thereof has handcuffed Molitor.He can't be blamed for the players he's given.He can be blamed for how he uses them though.  

 

I also tend to credit the assistant coaches with most of the improvement of individual players.  They're the ones that work with the players the most.  That's not to say that Molitor doesn't get any credit for it since I do feel that he's a good instructor.  However, a manager's job also has an in-game component to it.  I do not feel that it's a coincidence that a number of assistant coaches were added a to shore up the defense and improve the bats and that's exactly what happened.  

 

I'll finish by saying that I'm in the camp that feels that managers/head coaches get too much credit for winning and too much blame for losing.  I don't envy the FO in having to make this decision.  

Edited by wsnydes, 25 September 2017 - 07:53 AM.

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#18 GCTF

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:51 AM

Waiting for Molly to be Ausmus'd in a day or two.

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#19 Mike Sixel

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:52 AM

It would certainly lead to interesting narrative on both sides. Pretty tough call, if the FO feels he's not accepting enough of change and not good enough, to fire him. Pretty hard to keep though, if he's not aligned with how they want to work (we really don't know this one way or the other).

 

I don't envy them the choice, if there are differences. 

 

IMO, managers get way too much credit for a team over and under achieving. They probably get too little credit in some circles, because they are managing a team and coaches and doing a ton of non-in game work. I've been clear, I don't like how he manages in game. But I've also been clear, I have no idea what he does in the more important non-game work......

 

Either way, I hope they win the WS.....

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#20 jimmer

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:56 AM

I hear a lot about platooning, but roster construction in todays game, with 5 man rotations and larger bullpens than before, doesnt lend itself to platooning as much as it did before.

25 man roster, 13 pitcher leaves 12 position players. 9 position players play in the AL (8 on the field, one at DH). There just isnt much room to move around and play splits as much as some seem to want.
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