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Sherman: Mauer's HOF case similar to Mattingly's

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#1 Seth Stohs

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:16 PM

Joel Sherman writes for the NY Post. HE's generally very good, from what I have read in the past. I think he writes a really good, fair article pointing out the similar Hall of Fame Cases for Joe Mauer and Don Mattingly. 

 

Both had very good, extended period in which they won batting titles. Each has an MVP. 

Both had a major injury that created or caused a decline that saw their numbers fall to still very good career numbers.

 

Mattingly topped out at 28.5% of the HOF vote in his first of 15 years on the ballot. 

 

It's really a good comparison, though I do believe that Mauer's 8-9 years as a catcher and doing the things he did while at the position that hadn't been done in years. 

 

Take a look at the article link below and share your thoughts. I know it's a topic that comes up from time to time, particularly in the offseason but I'm writing about it because is from a national/NY writer. 

 

http://nypost.com/20...me-case-before/

 

 

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#2 jimmer

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:20 PM

Yeah, I'm sorry, Mauer has a better case.  Only AL catcher to have a batting title and he did it not once, not twice, but three times.  Mattingly never lead the league in BA/OBP/SLG% in the same year either.

Edited by jimmer, 18 September 2017 - 07:25 PM.

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#3 DaveW

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:21 PM

Mattingly was one of the best 5 catchers of all time?
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Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS  7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR
 


#4 DaveW

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:22 PM

Also Mauer has better sideburns!
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Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS  7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR
 


#5 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:22 PM

Mattingly was a very good player who played the least important defensive position on the field, though he played it well.

 

Mauer, on the other hand, posted similar numbers while doing it at the most important defensive position on the field.

 

Similar, maybe, but not identical. And the nod has to go to Mauer for doing what he did as a catcher, not a first baseman.

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#6 Thrylos

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:31 PM

That's an excellent comparison, but I think that catchers have a bit of an easier time getting there than first basemen. I think that this comparison is also relevant:

 

Roy Campanella (10 seasons) 1161 H, 38.2 fWAR, 123 wRC+
Joe Mauer (14 seasons - 10 as a C)1974 H, 48 fWAR, 124wRC+

 

So Mauer who will get 2000 hits (more than 9 HOF catchers and might actually catch up to Johnny Bench (2048 hits) and Gary Carter (2092) and will be only behind Berra, Fisk and Pudge) and caught as many seasons as Campanella with better results, should have a better case than Mattingly.Just because of the catching bit.

 

On the other hand you have Joe Torre (who caught only 10 seasons before turned to 1B) with 2342 H, 62.3 fWAR, and 129 wRC+ not in the HOF (as a player)

 

Hard to tell on this one

Edited by Thrylos, 18 September 2017 - 07:38 PM.

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#7 Mike Sixel

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:30 PM

I always thought mattingly and hrbek were a good comparison.... But not one of the best hitting catchers ever. No.
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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#8 nowheresville

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:46 PM

 

Also Mauer has better sideburns!

 

 

Disagree.

 

1072250.jpg

 

 

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#9 gunnarthor

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:32 PM

Yeah, I think Mauer's probably going to get in - his three batting titles will sway older voters while younger voters will like his JAWS score.

 

I do think it's fair to argue whether he's deserving but Torre, Simmons and even Posada will probably be sitting out. I think he's better than all of them but they each have a case.

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#10 Bill Brown69

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:45 PM

No concussion this isn't even a topic. Put Mauer at 1B at 24 years old this isn't a topic. Last yer I really don't think Mauer had much of a case, but now I think he has at least a chance. A gold glove at 1B or another batting title or a WS ring and I think he is almost a lock but 1 more year of .290ish  with few homers and I guess he tops out T 52% of the voters. 

 

It is a shame because he was the best pure hitter since George Brett, with all due respect to Tony Gwynn.

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#11 jctwins

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 08:14 AM

The Mauer HOF speech is going to be very moving for sure.

 

 

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#12 USAFChief

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 08:15 AM

Mattingly's not getting in the HOF.

 

 Mauer?  TBD.  As of today...doubtful.

 

 

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#13 Mike Sixel

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 08:21 AM

I certainly agree Mattingly shouldn't. 

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#14 Doomtints

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 08:48 AM

Mattingly's WAA is 17.4. That's a good player, but not a HOF player. He is in the Kent Hrbek range.

 

Mauer's WAA is 26.6.  Mauer is in HOF territory, but being on the lower edge there is no guarantee he will get enough votes based on his production. Puckett was boosted by his golden boy personality and likely Mauer gets a similar, albeit smaller, boost.  Puckett's WAA was 25.5.

 

Of course, Mauer likely finishes his career over 28 WAA, perhaps well over if he plays longer than the end of his current contract.  At the end of his career, unless he declines to being a below average player, the answer to this question should be a slam dunk.

Edited by Doomtints, 19 September 2017 - 08:55 AM.

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#15 Doubles

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 09:07 AM

*If* Mauer would've eked out two or three more seasons catching...

 

and *If* the conkies would've been a non-issue...

 

Mauer makes the Hall for sure, and goes down as one of, if not the, all-time greatest hitters among catchers.

 

If there is any justice in baseball, Mauer will become the third player in baseball history to win a Gold Glove at two positions (Darin Erstad, Placido Polanco).  Rare air.

 

 

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#16 old nurse

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 10:15 AM

I doubt that Mauer will get in without a couple of seasons with some hardware given out at the end of the year. If he is not winning popularity contests now, he will not later.


#17 Dantes929

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 11:08 AM

Mattingly has one batting title.  Mauer has 3. That is quite a difference. Mauer before Oliva.  Oliva before Mattingly.

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#18 yarnivek1972

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 11:29 AM

Mattingly's WAA is 17.4. That's a good player, but not a HOF player. He is in the Kent Hrbek range.

Mauer's WAA is 26.6. Mauer is in HOF territory, but being on the lower edge there is no guarantee he will get enough votes based on his production. Puckett was boosted by his golden boy personality and likely Mauer gets a similar, albeit smaller, boost. Puckett's WAA was 25.5.

Of course, Mauer likely finishes his career over 28 WAA, perhaps well over if he plays longer than the end of his current contract. At the end of his career, unless he declines to being a below average player, the answer to this question should be a slam dunk.


Puckett was also boosted by being the best player on two World Series winners. For the guys on the fence, that has a tendency to sway voters. That's why Mattingly is not in IMO. His career coincided with one of the longest title droughts in Yankee history. Or perhaps voters decided it wasn't a coincidence at all.
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#19 DaveW

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 11:45 AM

Puckett wasn't the best player on either of those two teams.

Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS  7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR
 


#20 spycake

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 11:58 AM

Puckett wasn't the best player on either of those two teams.


"Perceived to be" would have been the better phrasing. (He did narrowly lead our position players in bWAR in 1987.)

Technically I suppose he led the combined 1987 and 1991 teams in total Twins bWAR too. :)
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