Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

When you think that Souhan has reached low...

  • Please log in to reply
85 replies to this topic

#21 crop duster

crop duster

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 28 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 02:44 PM

I'm going to try to not be combative here but c'mon. Address any point I made? You quoted 70% and I assumed we were okay with rounding since we were okay misrepresenting the very question the poll asked. if that's the best you have just let it drop.
No one said he was MLK, stop misrepresenting what I said. My point was that when people have time to calm down, they sometimes change their mind. Like they did with MLK. And Ali. My experience talking with people who don't like CK is that they don't really know what CK is saying - they're projecting their own beliefs about those who oppose them onto CK. You don't strike me as different in that regard. He doesn't hate America, he doesn't want the troops to die - he's just using his first amendment right to free speech. We should all be proud of that, even if we disagree. Jon Kitna led prayer circles after every game. I'm not a big fan of organized religion but I'm glad that he has the right to gather and worship as he chooses.
Likewise, I think Favre is a perfect comparison. Favre was actually hated, not disagreed with. I have never known an opposing player that MN sports fans have ever hated more. Then he became a Viking and people raced out to buy his jersey and crow at their Packer fan friends with every win. People dropped that hate in a second because sports has a "my guy" aspect that is hard to resist. If a player makes your team better you like him. We all originally liked AJ if you need another example. And as to your last point, I never met a single person who didn't think that my stance was stupid and never met anyone else who was done with the Vikings for the Favre era. That's anecdotal but I think it's telling.
Do you have an actual response? NItpicking and misrepresenting don't count.


If the Favre comparison is perfect then Kaepernick must have been loved in San Fran, he was "their guy" right? Oh but he was drummed out of town there, some love... Do you have a valid comparison involving a player who was reviled nationwide for his politics and judgement on displaying those views suddenly becoming loved in a new city?

#22 Hosken Bombo Disco

Hosken Bombo Disco

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 9,015 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 02:51 PM

 

If the Favre comparison is perfect then Kaepernick must have been loved in San Fran, he was "their guy" right? Oh but he was drummed out of town there, some love... Do you have a valid comparison involving a player who was reviled nationwide for his politics and judgement on displaying those views suddenly becoming loved in a new city?

I'm not sure this is as true as you believe it is. You might be looking at a faulty study.


#23 jkcarew

jkcarew

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 617 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 03:58 PM

Not offended by the article.But kind of weary of Kaepernick articles, in general.

 

Everyone talks about the political consequences of Kaepernick's actions.But there are real, non-political consequences as well.The goat rodeo of media and distraction that will surround the team and Kaep's own ability to put in the time to be an active NFL quarterback, while also playing the part of highly-visible political activist...is very problematic.Jim Brown, who has a lot of experience at both political activism and playing in the NFL said that, if Kaepernick wants to play in the NFL, he needs to recede from the political activist role for a while.That's not a political reality, it's an NFL reality.(To be fair, I'm not sure the media would accept him stepping away from that role anymore...even if he were to want to.)  In the meantime, while Kaepernick is probably better than several QB's on current rosters, he's simply not good enough to take on this stuff...again, that's ignoring the political risk (or benefit) you may see in taking him on.

  • Mike Sixel and Hosken Bombo Disco like this

#24 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 26,727 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 04:15 PM

 

Not offended by the article.But kind of weary of Kaepernick articles, in general.

 

Everyone talks about the political consequences of Kaepernick's actions.But there are real, non-political consequences as well.The goat rodeo of media and distraction that will surround the team and Kaep's own ability to put in the time to be an active NFL quarterback, while also playing the part of highly-visible political activist...is very problematic.Jim Brown, who has a lot of experience at both political activism and playing in the NFL said that, if Kaepernick wants to play in the NFL, he needs to recede from the political activist role for a while.That's not a political reality, it's an NFL reality.(To be fair, I'm not sure the media would accept him stepping away from that role anymore...even if he were to want to.)  In the meantime, while Kaepernick is probably better than several QB's on current rosters, he's simply not good enough to take on this stuff...again, that's ignoring the political risk (or benefit) you may see in taking him on.

 

that's certainly all true. 

 

That's part of what makes him brave, not a coward or a victim. He's willing to stand up for what he thinks is right, even though it is costing him money. And he's being viscerated for doing that by a large populace, even though he's doing it peacefully, like they keep telling the people of St. Louis to do....

  • mickeymental likes this

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#25 drock2190

drock2190

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,206 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 04:38 PM

Kaepernick is an idiot. He's protesting but then doesn't even vote in the election. That's pretty much end of the story right there.

 

I really don't like it when people don't honor the flag, I've had relatives and friends give there all defending this country. Today's generation (and I'm part of it), feel way too entitled to things and cry when they don't get their way.

 

I would be dissapointed if the Vikings signed him. Besides he's not really that good to make a difference when Sam is out.


#26 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,656 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:15 PM

Kaepernick is an idiot. He's protesting but then doesn't even vote in the election. That's pretty much end of the story right there.

I really don't like it when people don't honor the flag, I've had relatives and friends give there all defending this country. Today's generation (and I'm part of it), feel way too entitled to things and cry when they don't get their way.

I would be dissapointed if the Vikings signed him. Besides he's not really that good to make a difference when Sam is out.


Isn't a big part of what your friends and relatives defended the right to choose to NOT stand during the anthem?

I have 3 cousins who have served in 3 different branches, and that is their feeling on it.

Does patriotism have any meaning if its required? I guess I'd lean heavily towards no.
  • gunnarthor, twinsnorth49, ThejacKmp and 5 others like this

#27 drock2190

drock2190

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,206 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:18 PM

 

Isn't a big part of what your friends and relatives defended the right to choose to NOT stand during the anthem?

I have 3 cousins who have served in 3 different branches, and that is their feeling on it.

Does patriotism have any meaning if its required? I guess I'd lean heavily towards no.

 

No it shouldn't be required but that doesn't mean I can't frown on it. Without diving into statistics, Kaep's argument is rather weak. He's a drama queen and him not voting proves it.


#28 drock2190

drock2190

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,206 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:36 PM

 

The NFL's blackballing Colin Kaepernick is a purely political, racist move by a group of racist, white billionaires that consider black men to be expendable pieces in their rich white boy's game of pro football ownership. Kaepernick's uppity protest of America's extremely racist national anthem is something we as Americans should all praise, not condemn. 

 

Meanwhile, the Minnesota Vikings owners and management are revealing to us that they are no better than the grossest Klansmen in their hatred of uppity black men. Kaepernick is a starting NFL quarterback. Maybe not the best, but a damn sight better than a place holder like Case Keenum. Shame on Vikings management for ignoring a winning QB for purely racist reasons. 

 

Wow. You sir, just jumped to a lot of conclusions. Not everything is about racism.

  • Tomj14 likes this

#29 Craig Arko

Craig Arko

    Mathematically inclined primate

  • Members
  • 8,265 posts
  • LocationThe Congo Basin

Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:44 PM

 

Wow. You sir, just jumped to a lot of conclusions. Not everything is about racism.

Ultimately in this case, I think it is, based on the nature of the protest. Clearly the cases of say, Michael Vick, Darren Sharper, Ray Lewis, and Adrian Peterson were much less so. Although the NFL took all of those men back.

 

If the Vikings showed some guts and signed Kaepernick, I might watch them again.

Edited by Craig Arko, 18 September 2017 - 05:51 PM.

  • gunnarthor, twinsnorth49, mickeymental and 1 other like this

Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries;
for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. - David Hilbert


#30 drock2190

drock2190

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,206 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:52 PM

 

Ultimately in this case, I think it is. Clearly the cases of say, Michael Vick, Darren Sharper, Ray Lewis, and Adrian Peterson were much less so. Although the NFL took all of those men back.

 

If the Vikings showed some guts and signed Kaepernick, I might watch them again.

 

Sam is out a week and everyone freaks out over the backup. They played a good team, probably wouldn't have won if Bridgewater walked out on the field fully healthy. Bridgewater is a better QB and if he is good to go at the midway point, he might take the job from Sam. And if he has to sit, I would bet he would be better about taking that then Kaep.


#31 Kwak

Kwak

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,939 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:58 PM

 

Just to be clear: Kaepernick is using his speech on behalf of victims, not playing a victim himself.

+1

 

The timing of "his protest" coincided with the news that SF was considering releasing him (from a bloated contract).  There was considerable turmoil in the SF team given their "fall from grace". 

 

The first game he "protested"--nobody said a word!  K. then announced to all--"I'm protesting!".  Said protests continued--but K. wasn't redirecting the commentary about him to "his issue" (alleged race-specific police brutality), but instead made the entire issue about him (his protest) specifically.  No longer were the brutalized the victim--Kaepernick was the "victim".

 

The SF football was euchured by Kaepernick into keeping on its payroll all-season for fear of a wrongful termination lawsuit. 

 

So if you want an example of a "me first" guy on your team (out shining AP in that category)--well he's all yours.  But, to expect K. to fix MV's offensive line weakness is unfathomable. 

 

 

  • drock2190 likes this

#32 jimbo92107

jimbo92107

    Señor Member

  • Members
  • 3,881 posts
  • LocationSan Diego

Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:19 PM

 

Wow. You sir, just jumped to a lot of conclusions. Not everything is about racism.

You're right, this isn't all about racism. It's also about the rich ruling over the hired help. If it were about merit, Kaepernick would be playing. If it were about patriotism, what's more patriotic than a public protest? 

 

I sir, believe my eyeballs. 

Edited by jimbo92107, 18 September 2017 - 06:20 PM.

  • Platoon likes this

The door opened. A woman screamed. Someday, my mom would learn to knock.


#33 drock2190

drock2190

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,206 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:31 PM

 

You're right, this isn't all about racism. It's also about the rich ruling over the hired help. If it were about merit, Kaepernick would be playing. If it were about patriotism, what's more patriotic than a public protest? 

 

I sir, believe my eyeballs. 

 

You make a bit more sense in this post. It's the drama he brings with him, is why he doesn't have a job. He could be white and the owners wouldn't want to bring him in. His skin color has NOTHING to do with it so its not about them being racist.


#34 jimbo92107

jimbo92107

    Señor Member

  • Members
  • 3,881 posts
  • LocationSan Diego

Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:38 PM

 

You make a bit more sense in this post. It's the drama he brings with him, is why he doesn't have a job. He could be white and the owners wouldn't want to bring him in. His skin color has NOTHING to do with it so its not about them being racist.

Drama, ah yes, the other excuse. Fascinating how certain kinds of drama are so injurious to certain kinds of snowflakes. Unfortunately, I've heard it all too many times. All we can really conclude is...

 

Whoops, looks like we've run out of time, Drock. This issue will just have to wait. It's just not the time to discuss it. Like global warming!

  • Platoon likes this

The door opened. A woman screamed. Someday, my mom would learn to knock.


#35 Platoon

Platoon

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 4,814 posts
  • LocationTwinsWorld

Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:39 PM

If one HAS to stand for the National Anthem or show visible deference to the flag, then that which they represent doesn't actually exist. If you check the Webster, the word "freedom" doesn't have qualifiers. That's not to say one has to approve or endorse protests or displays. But, such disapproval should not be couched in terms hiding ones real thoughts. No one actually thought crossing the Edmund Pettis bridge was a safety hazard. They just didn't like the people doing it. And anyone suggesting that KP is not playing in the NFL for any other reason than his protests is not being realistic.

  • ThejacKmp likes this
TwinsWorld: Did you hear we just updated the Stadium Club?

If I wanted balls and strikes called by a robot, I would get an Xbox!

#36 drock2190

drock2190

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,206 posts

Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:58 PM

 

Drama, ah yes, the other excuse. Fascinating how certain kinds of drama are so injurious to certain kinds of snowflakes. Unfortunately, I've heard it all too many times. All we can really conclude is...

 

Whoops, looks like we've run out of time, Drock. This issue will just have to wait. It's just not the time to discuss it. Like global warming!

 

No problem. I'm far from a snowflake though. You won't see me protesting in the streets ;)


#37 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Haighters gonna Haight

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,356 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:47 PM

goat rodeo

4jxcvg.gif

  • snepp likes this

A slim chance equals a fat chance, yet a wise man and a wise guy are opposites.


#38 gil4

gil4

    The irrational optimism is back!

  • Members
  • 1,735 posts
  • LocationOklahoma

Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:04 PM

http://www.espn.com/...nd-racist-tweet

 

Souhan:The NFL has conspiratorially blackballed Kaepernick for kneeling during the national anthem to protest the unjustified shootings of black Americans by police.
Some owners don’t want him on their team, wrongly conflating a peaceful protest with an attack on our country or our soldiers. Some owners, general managers and coaches don’t want the headache of Kaepernick’s presence and news conferences.

 I'm not sure he has been "conspiratorially blackballed" when there are reports he still wants starter money, which isn't going to happen. I'm also not sure he cares whether or not the shootings he protests are justifiable or not. 

 

Therewas also the bridge he burned with the Ravens- yes, it was his girlfriend's tweet, not his, but if someone close to you is saying stuff like that you either renounce it or you own it. He owns it. (It's not like it was a crazy uncle he sees every three years - it was his girlfriend.) I'm also not sure if he was ever seriously considered in Miami when Tannehill got hurt, but that Fidel Castro shirt wasn't going to play well there.

 

 

My opinion has softened a bit, partly because he has indicated that he will stand for the national anthem this year if he plays.I'm not sure he fits theVikings' scheme (although I'm no expert,and maybe that's not an issue.His skill set if different from that of Bradford and Keenum - part of that is the fact he has two functioning knees, which neither of them can claim. 

 

 

 


 

 


#39 gil4

gil4

    The irrational optimism is back!

  • Members
  • 1,735 posts
  • LocationOklahoma

Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:10 PM

 

If one HAS to stand for the National Anthem or show visible deference to the flag, then that which they represent doesn't actually exist. If you check the Webster, the word "freedom" doesn't have qualifiers. That's not to say one has to approve or endorse protests or displays. But, such disapproval should not be couched in terms hiding ones real thoughts. No one actually thought crossing the Edmund Pettis bridge was a safety hazard. They just didn't like the people doing it. And anyone suggesting that KP is not playing in the NFL for any other reason than his protests is not being realistic. Or honest.

If you choose to offend a significant portion of your employer's customers while you are at work, don't be shocked if you are no longer employed and if similar employers with similar customers decide not to hire you.He does't HAVE to stand for the national anthem - he's free to go start his own league.

  • crop duster and Dozier's Glorious Hair like this

#40 gil4

gil4

    The irrational optimism is back!

  • Members
  • 1,735 posts
  • LocationOklahoma

Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:12 PM

 

Drama, ah yes, the other excuse. Fascinating how certain kinds of drama are so injurious to certain kinds of snowflakes. Unfortunately, I've heard it all too many times. All we can really conclude is...

 

Whoops, looks like we've run out of time, Drock. This issue will just have to wait. It's just not the time to discuss it. Like global warming!

 

Ask Tim Tebow how much drama teams tolerate from back-up QBs.

  • WLFINN and Dozier's Glorious Hair like this